noun+teki na

Neil2 · 2 Aug 2008

Hey y'all,

Can someone explain the rules when to use 'teki na' and just 'na'?
'Ippan teki na' but 'genki na'. Both have a noun root.

So, for example, one I don't know: bouryoku. Is it 'bouryoku na' or 'bouryoku teki na'? How would I know? Or is there actually a difference in meaning?

Thanks

Glenn · 3 Aug 2008

It's a noun, so no na. It's used like bouryoku o furu'u or bouryoku ni uttaeru (not the way to go, in my opinion), or bouryoku o kuwaeru.

It also has a corresponding teki adjectival form: bouryoku-teki(na), as in bouryoku-teki na kaiketsu no shikata.

If you can use a Japanese dictionary, you can find this information out for yourself. You could also try Google to see how many hits you get for what you want to say. But I would suggest not worrying about it too much, and just learning words for how they're used by Japanese people. If you find yourself in a situation where you can't quite remember "was it with teki or not?" "na-adjective or noun?" try the dictionary or the Google search, and remember that a search term that gives you a few hundred or few thousand hits isn't the way to go (unless you're using really specific or obscure search terms).

Neil2 · 3 Aug 2008

Thanks, Glenn, but you don't answer my question. Is there a rule when to use which? I am only interested in the adjectival form. Quite simply, 'ippan' is a noun and adds 'teki na' whilst genki is a noun but adds 'na'. Why and what is the rule/distinction? Yes, I can find out which is used by googling, but I'm after a grammar rule or reason.

Glenn · 3 Aug 2008

I think any rule you happen to find would be so complicated as to make it useless as a learning tool, which is why I suggested what I did. I once asked a similar question, and got nothing useful, which is part of what lead me to think that. Anyway, sorry I can't help you any more than that.

Neil2 · 3 Aug 2008

OK, Glenn, I think I see where you're coming from. It's one of those things where you need to learn usage in each case, not carte blanche rules. But what I'm guessing is that except for the usual 'na' adjectives we all learn as standard you should add 'teki'. Sound reasonable?

Glenn · 3 Aug 2008

I'd say "perhaps," but I can't really answer the question. It may be a good idea for you to come up with some examples of when you want to use it (医者的, 家的, 提案的, etc.) and see if they pass the grammaticality test. I can't really say whether it's reasonable or not that you can just add it onto the usual na-adjectives we learn as standard (although I have to say, I don't know what those are).

However, I have read that there seem to be lots of instances of people say things lately like watashi-teki ni... or kurashi-teki ni... or jikan-teki ni..., and these are considered bad style, and the impression that the speaker can't speak their minds in a straightforward manner can be taken away from it.* So the answer to your question may be "yes, but there's a stigma involved." But that may just be older people thinking that about young people's speech, or it may have changed since 2004, when my reference was printed.

*[Source] 問題な日本語

Toritoribe · 3 Aug 2008

Neil2 said:
But what I'm guessing is that except for the usual 'na' adjectives we all learn as standard you should add 'teki'. Sound reasonable?

Not always.
Basically, "teki" is used with 漢語(kango), however can not be used for all 漢語.

e.g.
精神(seishin)
×seishin na
○seishin teki

感心(kanshin)
○kanshin na
×kanshin teki

苦心(kushin)
×kushin na
×kushin teki

健康(kenkou)
○kenkou na
○kenkou teki

Furthermore, some 和語(wago) can be used with "teki" especially in conversation.

わたし(watashi)
watashi teki ni wa: It's just my thought but,,,

うわさ(uwasa)
uwasa teki ni wa: regarding something like rumour

These expression have the effect to soften the meaning. Some people may feel odd for this expression, as Glenn san mentioned, though.
It's tough to generalize the rule...

The classification whether a noun or not is also tough. Please refer to my post below.
大きい and 大きな | Page 2 | Japan Forum
Basically, it's said that Group (1)~(3) belong to nouns.

Glenn · 3 Aug 2008

Thanks for that, Toritoribe. I had suspected that was the case, but I didn't have the specific examples to demonstrate it. I was actually kind of waiting and hoping you would come along and weigh in on the issue, because I figured you'd have a better answer (and you did!).

Neil2 · 3 Aug 2008

OK, thanks a lot guys. I just love rules... ☝

noun+teki na

Neil2

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Neil2

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Glenn

一切皆苦

Neil2

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

Neil2

後輩

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