Negative, postive or informative ?

Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.

You know what, I'm sick of this. Please stay ontopic, and stop with all the childish behavior for crying out loud.

ArmandV said:

Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.

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I think he's admitted pretty much the same himself -- although there's a big distinction between opinions on Japan and management style, ie ethical treatment of members of the board he administers.

Maciamo said:

The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

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Since you brought this topic up Maciamo , and in 100% seriousness, what would it take to "buy" you out of here?

Every man has his price you know. It's easy just think of any dollar, euro, yen, peso, mark amount and put it here.

Hachiro said:

Since you brought this topic up Maciamo , and in 100% seriousness, what would it take to "buy" you out of here?

Every man has his price you know. It's easy just think of any dollar, euro, yen, peso, mark amount and put it here.

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Make him an offer he can't refuse.

ArmandV said:

Make him an offer he can't refuse.

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Maybe he'd sell it for a :singr two.

I would say at the current pace of things it couldn't be worth all that much for all the headaches that are dealt out here.

Hachiro said:

Maybe he'd sell it for a :singr two.
I would say at the current pace of things it couldn't be worth all that much for all the headaches that are dealt out here.

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Deal with it like you would anyone who is deeply socially and emotionally delayed (NOT retarted ), whom I would consider almost a small child trying to survive in a grown up world, and it isn't being malicious or resentful by saying that but I think it is probably very close to the crux of the matter. Plus, it takes most of the sting and zap out of their vaunted powers.

Mikawa_Ossan said:

I don't think that people like myself who "defend" Japan are necessarily being P.C. I think we just disagree with people like Maciamo. Or shall I be more specific?

I often agree that the issues that Mac and others raise do indeed exist. I just disagree about the interpretation of said issues.

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ArmandV said:

Has anyone given the thought that maybe Maciamo posts provocatively to rile people up for good discussion threads? Yeah, he sometimes pisses people off, but you can't say the discussion topics are dull.

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Kinsao said:

It seems you care how you come across to people. Well, if so, take care how you come across to people.

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These are constructive. More to the point, they are not attacks upon Maciamo's character.

You guys don't know Maciamo, you don't live with him, you have no idea what he is like. You simply know how you interpret what he's written.

You don't like Maciamo? Fine. Great. You deserve a cookie. But I've also got to admit, it disgusts me that people would want to silence somebody they disagree with, either with cash or banning, when that person is not simply flaming or trolling (some responses, however, border on flaming and trolling). His crime is taking stands that people heartily disagree with, and oftentimes refusing to budge, but that's it, as far as I've seen. If he's abused his powers as a moderator/administrator, then perhaps disciplinary action is called for, yeah, like a reduction in status. However, it sickens me when people would rather have a voice of disagreement silenced, and people who advocate such action have too much in common with fascists for my taste. Maybe both groups need to grow a thicker skin.

There's a quote I'd like to recall:

Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded.

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Maciamo, some of your posts are informative, but quite a few are negative. I find it strange that you lived here for as long as you did and only found negative things to write about...or at least you only remember the negative aspects.

Eupedia said:

You have been banned for the following reason:
None

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

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Here is another example of your poor attitude. I have not posted anything even remotely distressing on Eupedia but you saw fit to ban me...again "it's my ball, play my way or else!" You never did have friends as a kid did you...and you never will as an adult. You can not handle people with different views than yourself.

His crime is taking stands that people heartily disagree with, and oftentimes refusing to budge, but that's it, as far as I've seen. If he's abused his powers as a moderator/administrator, then perhaps disciplinary action is called for, yeah, like a reduction in status. However, it sickens me when people would rather have a voice of disagreement silenced, and people who advocate such action have too much in common with fascists for my taste. Maybe both groups need to grow a thicker skin.

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First off odds are you haven't seen or read the threads in question because they were deleted by him, posts, threads everything, before you got the chance to read them.

So there is a high probability that you are making these comments without knowing the entire picture. Can't say as I blame you, hell I might think the same way as you do if I only saw 1/3 of the picture and only the 1/3 that puts him in a "good" light and makes it seem that everyone else like me is picking on him.

Bringing up "cultural" differences and issues is fine, it is helpful for any and all, just don't go all haywire because people post comments that are contradictory to yours. And don't always expect that what your experience was, was the "norm" when in good probability it was just a blip on the screen. Yet that is pretty much what he has been pushing or trying to push down peoples throats here.

From the sound of numerous comments that he made here his @4 years of living here were strife with confrontation. Hell I've been here 5 times as long as he was, oh and I still am here, and I have seen 1/10 of the problems he had, not saying that he didn't have the problems, but I am suggesting that he was just as much of the problem as well.

He quite possibly brought the misunderstanding upon himself and refuses to accept or acknowledge that possiblity exists and lays the "blame" entirely at the feet of Japanese society. That is where I take offense with his commentary.

Forgot something here; I don't know about anyone else but a disagreement or discussion, agreeing to disagree, that's fine, that's life. No one is suggesting silencing anyone, at least not me anyway, all I would appreciate and expect is that EQUAL respect given to all members and their opinions and posts. Also that language used, no matter if that person is Admin or "average" member stay within the boundaries of that respectfulness. That is a part of the "rules" or "guidelines" to posting here and when the creator of those very rules decides for whatever reason NOT to follow them, it is fair for the rest of the membership to question or disagree.

If you want examples there are plenty out there.

As a "wise" man once reminded me; "You should be old enough to know that nothing stops a conversation faster than the appearance of someone who actually knows what he is talking about."

I really wanted to just make my comment and leave this thread alone, but I never know when to keep my mouth shut. So here goes...

Maciamo has posted a number of things I have disagreed with. There are also some times that I have disliked his attitude/way of expression. However, I have no problem with the fact that he posts negative things about his experiences in Japan. It's exactly that - his experiences. Not a definitive 'this is what Japan and Japanese people are like'. Sometimes people - including myself - have felt that his view is skewed, either by his external situation in Japan or by his own mindset/personality tendencies. In those cases, this is perfectly open for debate, and people have indeed pointed out where and why their view is different from Maciamo's. We are all perfectly free to disagree with him, and I certainly do, on some issues - I can't recall exact threads, but there was one discussion a while ago that touched on Japanese national characteristics, and where I felt Mac was saying that his intelligence/way of thinking was 'superior' to people who didn't think/reason the way he did; also I have disagreed with him on matters of religion, for example on the 'religious people are weaker than atheistic people' thread. But somehow, these differences of view don't seem to bug me as much as they do some people on here.

My thought is that it's not really differences of view to Maciamo that is getting people worked up. Probably most people on here have different view from me on various things but mostly we manage to get along all together. It is more of 'management style' and the administration of the forum that is annoying people. They feel that they haven't been treated fairly; maybe that their post got deleted, or they were banned without a good enough reason, or something like that. All of which are fair arguments and should be brought up in an open way so that it can be resolved.

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, though... does it really matter whether Maciamo made negative threads? Is it really such a big deal? I can understand that newer people to the forum, seeing these all together, might have got a bit of a negative impression of life in Japan, but as I have said, these things were contestable (and contested!) and based on personal experience. This is an internet forum after all, not a 'traveller's guide to Japan' or something.

Also, the fact that Mac's more positive contributions are in the past doesn't make them less positive. The information sections and guides still exist; they don't disappear when he's having a bad day. ☝

I have a feeling that the way this thread has gone is a ferment of revolt against the way the forum is run, and even the fact that Maciamo felt the need to start this thread indicates a sense that 'all is not well'. Administrative/management problems are best sorted out in a spirit of openness and rational discussion, but it seems there are some people on the forum for whom everything is getting just a little too much... exasperation...

Here is another example of your poor attitude. I have not posted anything even remotely distressing on Eupedia but you saw fit to ban me...again "it's my ball, play my way or else!" You never did have friends as a kid did you...and you never will as an adult. You can not handle people with different views than yourself.

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I was also banned there recently, after not posting anything in weeks. Airing these grievances publicly even simply pointing out the facts it should be obvious by now alone will not create an atmosphere for change. Although anyone who has the time and motivation to apparently do little but sow dissension for themselves and others around them deserves much more sympathy than anger in my mind.

After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why

Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
Eupedia Forum

RockLee said:

After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why
Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
Eupedia Forum

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The reasons given to me were three : not having sufficient interest in Europe, posting on this board which is hostile to Eupedia, and that my presence overall had a negative impact on the environment there. ☝

This place gets more like a playground sandbox every day.

And I mean a playground sandbox in a park with LOTS of cats, if you know what I mean.

Kinsao, I have no problems what so ever with the topics that Maciamo has started, in fact I give him a "ton" of credit for taking the time to write those rather lengthly and detailed posts that he wrote his "history" and that is the key "history" is where his strengths lay.

Since I have been a member here I have encountered a "different" Maciamo than many of the more "veteran" members here.

My opposition to many of his posts and administration of this site, lies totally in his adamant refusal to;

1stly admit that his point of view is his alone, and not a statement of Japanese people in general.

2ndly that his presumption that Japanese people should accept him, looks regardless, as a Japanese person, even though he is obviously caucasian and the Japanese people are not and his presumption that just because he has "P.R." status he should be suddenly accepted by, and this is a huge point, by an ethnocentric society that has absolutely zero caucasian nationals/citizens as a member of "their" society.

3rdly that his adamant refusal to allow for the fact that "he" and not the Japanese people are at fault for the misunderstandings and discrimination that he "MAY" have faced or experienced whilst living here in Japan.

4thly and finally that he has a determined mindset that everyone that disagrees with him is an "enemy", when that is the farthest thing from the truth. His, Macaimo's actions, deleting posts, removing reputation points, removing threads that make him appear less than "normal" are overt acts of censorship and call into discussion/question his "fittness" to be an admin on this site. His evidently childish behaviour causes many to take pause and consider whether or not they want to continue posting on this site.

This site has much to be proud of....yet there are countless members/CUSTOMERS that no longer are here because of the arrogance and possible "instability" of one of the Admin.

Kinsao it doesnt matter that Maciamo made negative posts... that is the least of the problem...like I wrote in a precious post, letting people know the "good" and "bad" of any society and people is/are useful. BUT forcing people to accept his and HIS alone views of a situation is downright wrong. Plus his actions towards members that disagree with him and his disregard the normally accepted "rules" of behaviour on a message board like this are the main concern.

Deleting posts and threads that make him appear less than "acceptable" is censorship, there is no other word in the dictionary for it. Playing with members post counts and rep' points is childish at best....can you think of anything else?

Like I wrote on another post, and to para-phrase that comment, if you have only read 1/3 of the recent posts and comments that Maciamo has made in reply to the "current" discussion, then I would also "take" offense" or try to defend him. BUT and this is a huge but, too many, numerous posts were deleted, that were directly related to this conversation, make Maciamo out to be the marytr in all of this......if you had the opportunity to view all the associated threads and posts that are connected to this, I think that you may/might have a different opinion.

Maciamo is counting on his "rep" to carry him over in this current dispute.....I am the ultimate optimist, tomorrow is another day, and I every pray and hope that things here get back to normal, with or without Maciamo.

Maciamo said:

Haha, somebody embodying me ! FYI, there was no revenue before Thomas and I decided to merge our websites and give JREF a facelift. Most of the JREF you see today was designed (and written, regarding content pages outside the forum) by myself. The advertising and finance is also under my responsability (and lead).

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Yes, we had guessed as much. That's why I have despaired of ever having principled, mature, even-handed, ethical administration of JREF. Yet some people seem to enjoy indulging themselves in wishful thinking, believing that there is a possibility of change for the better.

Many seem to have some idea that Thomas is going to play Prince Charming on a white charger and come dashing in to save JREF. I came to the realization today that there is no sound, logical basis for thinking that. It's very much like little kids who are tyrranized by a bully at school wistfully fantasizing about an imaginary big brother who, if he were there, would stomp the snot out of his tormenter. Sort of sad, really.

Off Topic.....

Rock I must give you credit, my first impressions were not that "great" but I must admit now that you seem to have a decent and "level" head about you. Well you probably had all those "atributes" about you beforehand as well.

Cheers!

RockLee said:

After some people complained that they were also a member on Eupedia, all the inactive members (those who didn't post on Eupedia,those which requested so) were deleted from Eupedia. I don't know why some of you were also banned as you were active (or pretty much active) :? I might have been a mistake perhaps, you can always pm him asking why
Btw, Maciamo posted a thread saying he removed inactive users, here it is :
Eupedia Forum

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Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?

CC1 said:

Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?

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btw I hit the link and it doesnt work and because I asked Thomas to remove my name from the data base there under my handle n/a replaces the title.

There are a few others over there as well with the n/a title as well.

CC1 said:

Minor point Rock...but if you were banned, how would you be able to read this?

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It is still possible to browse and read threads just not much else.

Elizabeth said:

It is still possible to browse and read threads just not much else.

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Exactly

RockLee said:

Exactly

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Thanks Rock ! As they say in Japanese, it's usually easier to "Kusai mono ni wa futa wo suru" (Cover up a foul smell)....

but your assistance and intervention really saved the day
(Watari ni fune, offered a boat to cross on).

So we don't all end up as carp on the cutting board...(Manaita no ue no koi).

Elizabeth said:

"Kusai mono ni wa futa wo suru" (Cover up a foul smell).

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Ohh, I got to remember this one ! Thanks

@Hachiro: I can still look up the page even when I'm not logged in to Eupedia :?

Anyways, here's the message:

Unactive JREF members removed from memberlist

I would like to announce that I have removed all users who joined the forum on JREF (before the split) and never posted on or visited the Eupedia Forum. Naturally, all the members who have participated in threads here before the split cannot be removed without compromising the threads in which they participated. Members who have never posted but did visit Eupedia (i.e. expressed some interest) after the split were not removed either.

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Thanks Rock, but even after clearing cookies (so that I would no longer be logged in) I could not view the message. No matter.