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derick78b · 20 Jan 2012

Hello.

Today I created a very short conversation between 2 friends. I'd like to ask if you could please help me telling me if it's right or wrong and how can I make some improvement about it.

The protagonists are Yamada and Yamato, they're not so close friends.

ー山田さん、明日が合いましょうか? -> Yamada san, let's see each other (meet) tomorrow?
ーはい、しかしどこですか? -> Yes, but where?
ー未だ知らなかった。多分がすしを食べる。すしが好きじゃないか。 -> I don't know yet. Probably eat sushi. Don't you like sushi?
ーええ、けど焼きそばを食べたいよ。 -> Yeap, however you know I want to eat yakisoba.
ー何時間に会いますか? -> What time do we meet?
ー一時十三分にどうですか? -> How about 1:30?
ー宜しい。 -> Fine.
ーそう、じゃあまた明日。 -> So, see you tomorrow.
ーじゃあまた明日。 -> See you tomorrow too.

I know I have some huge mistakes but I hope I have done some great things.

Thank you once more.

Toritoribe · 20 Jan 2012

derick78b said:
山田さん、明日が合いましょうか?

明日 is not the subject of the sentence.
"To meet" is 会う, and not 合う.

derick78b said:
はい、しかしどこですか?

どこでですか

derick78b said:
未だ知らなかった。

まだ is usually written in hiragana.
知らなかった is the past or perfect tense.

derick78b said:
多分がすしを食べる。

多分 is not the subject of 食べる.

derick78b said:
すしが好きじゃないか。

じゃない is not a polite form.
I would say 寿司[すし]はどうですか？/嫌いですか？/だめですか？ instead.

derick78b said:
ええ、けど焼きそばを食べたいよ。

焼きそばを食べたいよ sounds awkward. You need to know how hard it is to grasp how to use sentence final particles correctly even for advanced learners.
I would say ええ、でも焼きそばが食べたいんですが。

derick78b said:
何時間に会いますか?

何時間 is an expression for length of time.

derick78b said:
一時十三分にどうですか?

一時三十分で/は/ではどうですか?

derick78b said:
宜しい。

宜しい sounds rather rude.

derick78b said:
そう、じゃあまた明日。

そう is not needed here.

derick78b · 20 Jan 2012

知らなかった is the past-negative form of 知る, isn't it? But I'll use 知りませんでした, I think it's more formal.

多分がすしを食べる。 Could it be すし多分をたべる。 or 多分すしをたべる。? Which one do you recommend me?

いい is better than 宜しい? 承知之助 is used or is it for close friends?

山田さん、明日が会いましょうか? That's the point I get confused. I don't like seeing words without particles, I think it feels weird or something. May it possible to write山田さん、明日会いましょうか? To be honest, I'd put a に between ashita and aimashou. But I don't know if it's unusual or not.

何時間に会いますか? what would you use? I knew it was wrong but I had some hope that it could be somehow right?

Thank you for your time, and sorry if I'm being too stupid.

Toritoribe · 20 Jan 2012

derick78b said:
知らなかった is the past-negative form of 知る, isn't it? But I'll use 知りませんでした, I think it's more formal.

I'm talking about "tense" and not "form".
The choice of the verb is wrong in the first place. まだわかりません is correct.

derick78b said:
多分がすしを食べる。 Could it be すし多分をたべる。 or 多分すしをたべる。? Which one do you recommend me?

多分 is not the object either.
食べる is not the polite form.

derick78b said:
窶堋｢窶堋｢ is better than 窶ｹX窶堋ｵ窶堋｢? ﾂ渉ｳ窶冦窶抃ﾂ鞘?｢ is used or is it for close friends?

いい is better than 宜しい? 承知之助 is used or is it for close friends?[/quote]
いいですね。
No one use such expression （がってん）承知之助 in real life, even if you've seen it in a dictionary or site.

derick78b said:
山田さん、明日が会いましょうか? That's the point I get confused. I don't like seeing words without particles, I think it feels weird or something. May it possible to write山田さん、明日会いましょうか? To be honest, I'd put a に between ashita and aimashou. But I don't know if it's unusual or not.

You don't need any particles after temporal words like 昨日, 来週, 再来月, whether you FEEL weird or not.
会いませんか or 会えませんか is correct.

derick78b said:
何時間に会いますか? what would you use? I knew it was wrong but I had some hope that it could be somehow right?

No. It doesn't make sense. 何時間会いますか? means "How many hours will we meet?"

derick78b · 23 Jan 2012

Toritoribe said:
No. It doesn't make sense. 何時間会いますか? means "How many hours will we meet?"

So, how could it be written?

Thanks.

Toritoribe · 23 Jan 2012

I already gave you a hint.

Toritoribe said:
何時間 is an expression for length of time.

derick78b · 24 Jan 2012

Toritoribe said:
I already gave you a hint.

何時あなた達は会えますか。

I think it's correct. What do you think?

Thank you

Toritoribe · 24 Jan 2012

Do you think the subject is YOU??
You need the particle に in this case.

Mike Cash · 24 Jan 2012

Why あなた達? I thought the speaker wanted to meet with the other guy. Is he not going to be there?

Why 会えます?

You're wandering farther away from being correct. Your original problem was basically not recognizing the difference between 何時 (what time?) and 何時間 (how many hours?)

derick78b · 24 Jan 2012

I agree Toritoribe, I was wrong.

Sorry, Mike, I got confused with あなた, what I meant was 私たち. And I think I know - only now - the difference between those two "words". That's why I think it's correct.

My original question was:

"What time will we meet?"

Now, with your help and Toritoribe's, I think the correct sentence is:
何時私たちに会えますか?

Thank you both.

Toritoribe · 24 Jan 2012

You don't need 私たちに. This phrase completely changes the meaning of the sentence. And I have to say again, you need the particle に for 何時.

何時に私たちに会えますか？
What time can you meet us?
("You" are not included in "we" in this case.)

It's OK just to delete 間 from your initial sentence.

何時に会いますか？
What time will we meet?

何時に会えますか？
What time can we meet?

derick78b · 24 Jan 2012

Ow, this one I didn't know yet.

Thank you very much.

So, could you please, help me with one last question?

Since you've seen my question and of course my mistakes, what do you think I have to get better? I mean, I'm not totally bad but I have my "problems" with some parts of language as I did with English.

Thank you once.

Toritoribe · 24 Jan 2012

First of all, you need to grasp the function of the particles(が, を, に,,,). Those are CRITICALLY important in Japanese language, as you can see in our corrections.

Mike Cash · 24 Jan 2012

derick78b said:
So, could you please, help me with one last question?

Since you've seen my question and of course my mistakes, what do you think I have to get better?

Get a textbook and learn things in order, with explanations and drills. Like I tried to tell you from the very beginning. Thinking you're going to learn Japanese well by intuiting everything from arcane and complex blocks of text you found on the Internet is mistaken. You may be smart, but you're not that smart.

Anybody who can afford a computer and Internet connection can afford a textbook. It is a matter of priorities.

You asked. I answered.

derick78b · 25 Jan 2012

Mike Cash said:
Get a textbook and learn things in order, with explanations and drills. Like I tried to tell you from the very beginning. Thinking you're going to learn Japanese well by intuiting everything from arcane and complex blocks of text you found on the Internet is mistaken. You may be smart, but you're not that smart.

Anybody who can afford a computer and Internet connection can afford a textbook. It is a matter of priorities.

You asked. I answered.

I told you I was using a textbook and I am.

Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese.

I think it's pretty good. Only when I have doubts I go and seach on Internet.

Thank you.

Mike Cash · 25 Jan 2012

That's not a textbook.

Slow down. Do the basics, even though they're boring. Quit trying to learn by translating complex stuff you found online.

staren · 25 Jan 2012

Mike Cash said:
That's not a textbook.

Slow down. Do the basics, even though they're boring. Quit trying to learn by translating complex stuff you found online.

Yea, I agree. Although Tae Kims is great for reference. It's also good using a regular textbook that goes over things in a "good" order.
I have done the 2 Genki books. Give them a try ts.

@mike I recently received So Matome N3. Which I am going to use next. But I found that the grammar explanations are not really thorough, basically just examples. I have heard that it's this way with alot of the higher level books. Do have any book you would recommend?
I maybe should post this in the textbook section but since it was brought up here...

Mike Cash · 25 Jan 2012

The last time I used a textbook was some time in the late 1980s so my information is out of date and I am not familiar with current offerings.

It is important to recognize the difference between textbooks and reference materials. Reference materials are supplemental learning materials, not an adequate substitute for a pedagogically constructed proper textbook.

Learning from a textbook is boring. Doing drills is boring. They also happen to be effective.

With the advent of the net and tons of free material (usually worth every cent you pay for it) nobody wants to buy actual good materials. And everybody wants to run before they have learned to walk.

staren · 25 Jan 2012

Mike Cash said:
The last time I used a textbook was some time in the late 1980s so my information is out of date and I am not familiar with current offerings.

It is important to recognize the difference between textbooks and reference materials. Reference materials are supplemental learning materials, not an adequate substitute for a pedagogically constructed proper textbook.

Learning from a textbook is boring. Doing drills is boring. They also happen to be effective.

With the advent of the net and tons of free material (usually worth every cent you pay for it) nobody wants to buy actual good materials. And everybody wants to run before they have learned to walk.

Oh, so you're oldschool
I agree to some extent. Some people still do use textbooks, me included I don't mind the drilling, except for vocab, god that is sooo boring , but I still do it everyday. But the problem for me is that I can't look at the books before I buy them since I have to order them online. Either from like the UK, USA or Japan. But the books seem to have good reading and listening practice at least

derick78b · 25 Jan 2012

staren said:
Yea, I agree. Although Tae Kims is great for reference. It's also good using a regular textbook that goes over things in a "good" order.
I have done the 2 Genki books. Give them a try ts.
@Mike I recently received So Matome N3. Which I am going to use next. But I found that the grammar explanations are not really thorough, basically just examples. I have heard that it's this way with alot of the higher level books. Do have any book you would recommend?
I maybe should post this in the textbook section but since it was brought up here...

So, where can I find these Genki Books, please?

Thank you all. I found Tae Kim very good, even though it has quick "tips and grammar", it's not a HUGE book.

staren · 25 Jan 2012

derick78b said:
So, where can I find these Genki Books, please?

Thank you all. I found Tae Kim very good, even though it has quick "tips and grammar", it's not a HUGE book.

Well Tae Kim's grammar covers at least up to N3, maybe further I don't know. But a real textbook is also great to have.
Genki can be found anywhere. Amazon for example.

nekojita · 26 Jan 2012

Derick, your location says you are in Sao Paulo. There are several organisations listed here that may be able to assist you:

Consulado Geral do Japão em São Paulo - Comunidade Nipo-Brasileira - Educação e Esporte

Some run courses or have libraries that you might be able to borrow textbooks from, at least one sells textbooks (CBLJ : Centro Brasileiro de Língua Japonesa

derick78b · 30 Jan 2012

I appreciate everything you've done to me.

Thank you all.

I'll improve my skills;

Thank you once more.

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