Literal meaning

himeji · 24 Aug 2008

I'm thinking that it might help me if I could have literal translations of sentences/phrases as well as actual meaning translations; if that makes any sense?
The way my brain works it seems to like to break things right down to component parts; I'm probably on the Asperger scale somewhere.
Anyway, for example.
I know what sumimasen means: excuse me; but does it have a literal translation; which bit is the excuse and which bit the me?
or,
Pasupōto - ga ochimashita -yo! which translates as You've dropped your passport!; but what does it say literally? This one is also female specific, I think, with the yo! at the end? How would a man say the same thing?
If there is a better place to ask this type of thing please point me to it as I'm likely to become somewhat of a pain asking similar questions, for a while anyway.

Mike Cash · 24 Aug 2008

If you're only learning phrases and not learning the language you're better off with functional translations.

A literal translation of "sumimasen" would entail a couple paragraphs of cultural explanation, mostly to make up for the fact that there would be so little linguistic explanation behind it. No part of it is "excuse" and no part of it is "me".

The deal about the passport would actually be "Your passport fell." since "ochimashita" is an intransitive verb. Again, we could have a couple paragraphs of cultural explanation as to why Japanese would choose to say it that way instead of using "otoshimashita", which is the transitive form of the verb and which would render "You've dropped your passport."

hirashin · 24 Aug 2008

yo

Hello, Himeji san. Where is your screen name from? It's the same as the name of a Japanese city in Hyougo Prefecture. The Himeji Castle is very famous as a national treasure.

I'm Hirashin, a Japanese living in Kyoto, Japan.

himeji said:
Pasupōto - ga ochimashita -yo! which translates as You've dropped your passport!; but what does it say literally?

pasupooto = passport
ga = (indicates the subject)
ochimashita = fell, dropped

himeji said:
This one is also female specific, I think, with the yo! at the end? How would a man say the same thing?

Men would also use the particle "yo" at the end.

Both men and women would say these.
tabemasu yo. / taberu yo.
watashi mo ikimasu yo. / watashi mo iku yo.
basu ga kimashita yo. / basu ga kita yo.

Hope it helps.

Hirashin

himeji · 24 Aug 2008

> If you're only learning phrases
I am at the moment but even so I can see how stuff might fit together to extend the simple phrases a bit; perhaps? or perhaps not?
> would be so little linguistic explanation behind it. No part of it is "excuse"
> and no part of it is "me".
That's fair enough: it just /is/ is fine, for the time being anyway.
Guess I'll stick with the phrases and sound like some sort of parrot...

himeji · 24 Aug 2008

> Hello, Himeji san. Where is your screen name from?

One of the characters in Girl's High anime; sad, I know ;-)))

Like many people my interest in anime is what's pushing me to learn a little Japanese.

> ga = (indicates the subject)

I thought wa did that?

> Men would also use the particle "yo" at the end.

Interesting. I understand that there is a definite gender difference when speaking Japanese, which trap foreigners easily fall into; to the amusement of the Japanese. Would a man say watashi wa?; I understand a woman would never say boku wa, right?

> Hope it helps.

It does.

Kirakira1232 · 24 Aug 2008

I thought wa did that?

In most text books ga indicates topic and wa indicates subject but their usage is far more complicated than that.

Interesting. I understand that there is a definite gender difference when speaking Japanese, which trap foreigners easily fall into; to the amusement of the Japanese. Would a man say watashi wa?; I understand a woman would never say boku wa, right?

Watashi wa is not gender specific (its used freely by both sexes) and neither is the 'yo' sentence final particle either. Its not that women never use boku wa, rather it depends on the context and relationship between those they are talking to that determines how they refer to themselves.

Ashikaga · 24 Aug 2008

At work, I refer to myself as Watashi as most people seem to do in a business setting. An even more formal way to call yourself would be Watakushi. With my friends/peers, I use Ore, which IS gender-specific (male), while I call myself Boku, whose use is most popular among young boys, to my parents brcause I am still their little angel.

himeji · 24 Aug 2008

> In most text books
I'm using NHK's 'Japan My Love' programme. It's the only learning aid (I printed the manual as well) I have at the moment (the mp3s are extremely useful as I can walk around practising, although it can be a bit dangerous...). I intend to work my way through it and not acquire anything else until I've done so; for the sake of not getting confused.
The thing it lacks is some one to ask; but asking in here has already been very useful.
Another question (promise, no more for a while): NHK's programme has dōmo arigatō gozaimasu and they shorten this to dōmo arigatō or simply arigatō depending on circumstances/situation but I've never heard any anime use dōmo; plenty of arigatō gozaimasu's and arigatō's but I can't recall ever hearing dōmo in front. So when would one add dōmo?
Watashi sounds much nicer (IMO) than the alternatives anyway, but, here again NHK seems to suggest that men should use boku (and animes do use watashi and boku fairly consistently as female/male, old men as well; well those I've watched anyway). Hmmmm....
I get the formal/informal thing and context (well, I think I do); after all you can do English that way if you want.

Glenn · 25 Aug 2008

Kirakira1232 said:
In most text books ga indicates topic and wa indicates subject but their usage is far more complicated than that.

You got that backwards. Ga=subject; wa=topic.

Toritoribe · 25 Aug 2008

すむ/済む(sumu): to get off with/be settled
すみます(sumimasu); the polite form of "sumu"
すみません(sumimasen); the negative form of "sumimasu"

"Sumimasen" is from "(あなたの行為に対して)私の気が済みません; (anata no koui ni taishite) watashi no ki ga sumimasen", which literally means "I'm not satisfied (with my reaction for your action)"

himeji said:
> In most text books
I'm using NHK's 'Japan My Love' programme. It's the only learning aid (I printed the manual as well) I have at the moment (the mp3s are extremely useful as I can walk around practising, although it can be a bit dangerous...). I intend to work my way through it and not acquire anything else until I've done so; for the sake of not getting confused.
The thing it lacks is some one to ask; but asking in here has already been very useful.

I think you might be better to learn the grammar of Japanese. Probably it's hard to understand the difference among the following sentences without it.

パスポートが落ちました。; Pasupo-to ga ochimashita.
The passport has fallen.

パスポートが落ちましたよ。; Pasupo-to ga ochimashita yo.
You've dropped your passport.

パスポートが落ちますよ。; Pasupo-to ga ochimasu yo.
Please be careful to not drop your passport.

パスポートが落ちてました(よ)。; Pasupo-to ga ochitemashita (yo).
I saw the passport fallen (on somewhere).
or with holding out it for the listner
I found this passport (on somewhere).

パスポートを落としました。; Pasupo-to wo otoshimashita.
I dropped my passport.

パスポートを落としましたよ。; Pasupo-to wo otoshimashita yo.
You've dropped your passport.

himeji said:
Another question (promise, no more for a while): NHK's programme has dōmo arigatō gozaimasu and they shorten this to dōmo arigatō or simply arigatō depending on circumstances/situation but I've never heard any anime use dōmo; plenty of arigatō gozaimasu's and arigatō's but I can't recall ever hearing dōmo in front. So when would one add dōmo?
Watashi sounds much nicer (IMO) than the alternatives anyway, but, here again NHK seems to suggest that men should use boku (and animes do use watashi and boku fairly consistently as female/male, old men as well; well those I've watched anyway). Hmmmm....
I get the formal/informal thing and context (well, I think I do); after all you can do English that way if you want.

I also use "watashi" at work, and frequently "doumo". Just you haven't heard it yet. "Doumo" is often used even in anime, of course.;-)

Kirakira1232 · 25 Aug 2008

Watashi sounds much nicer (IMO) than the alternatives anyway, but, here again NHK seems to suggest that men should use boku (and animes do use watashi and boku fairly consistently as female/male, old men as well; well those I've watched anyway). Hmmmm....

Well I always use "Watashi" when I'm speaking to my teachers and I'm not female. If I spoke to someone I had just met I would most likely use "watashi" as well. However if I was practicing my Japanese with a close friend of mine I wouldnt use Watashi, I'd use ore.

The thing with politeness is it denotes respect and distance. If you all of a sudden you used polite language to someone you've been close to for years they would think that your attempting to distance yourself from them or maybe mad with them for some reason. Whereas with my teachers, I am the student so I use watashi because I dont have the same relationship with my teachers as I do with my best friends.

As for doumo, you can say "Doumo arigatou gozaimashita/gozaimasu" it depends a lot on the context of course and who your speaking to. But personally I havent used the whole phrase at once much, usually its just 'Doumo", "Doumo arigatou" or "Arigatou gozaimashita/gozaimasu". I dunno maybe if I was super grateful for something I might use "Doumo arigatou gozaimashita"...

himeji · 25 Aug 2008

> I think you might be better to learn the grammar of Japanese.

I'm sure that you are correct.

Literal meaning

himeji

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

hirashin

Sempai

himeji

先輩

himeji

先輩

Kirakira1232

素敵な冒険始まる！

Ashikaga

もちもちした食感

himeji

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Kirakira1232

素敵な冒険始まる！

himeji

先輩

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