Learn while you sleep?

Bucket · 19 Apr 2008

I've heard this mentioned many times, but never found any concrete answers to my questions. First of all... Heh, is it possible to learn a foreign language by listening to educational tapes while you sleep? And if it works at all, is it possible to learn the whole language that way? Because I'm trying to learn from books right now. I have nobody to help me, and I have nobody to practice speaking with. So would listening to tape while I sleep kinda help with remembering stuff?
Because, since I have nobody to speak to, or practice with, I have trouble remember things. It's like I read it, then it's gone 2 days later.
So yeah. If anyone could give me any information on whether or not this is possible/plausible/probable etc... I would really appreciate it.

Soloistic · 19 Apr 2008

I am almost positive that learning while sleeping is a myth. You cannot master let alone learn much of a language if you learn only while sleeping. At best, it could help with listening comprehension but I would assume even that would be incredible limited.

The only way your going to learn a language is by hard work.

Haruspex · 19 Apr 2008

That kinda stuff doesn't exist outside Dexter's Laboratory.
As Soloistic said, you will have to sweat for every bit of knowledge.
And yes, its kinda normal that you forget lots, the human brain works that way. Review.

Ryuk · 19 Apr 2008

If you pay me £60 an hour I will stand in your room and speak Japanese while you sleep.

No wait that's kinda creepy. Just buy a textbook

Bucket · 19 Apr 2008

Listen guys. It's not that I'm just looking for shortcuts, or an "easy way out" or anything like that. I just don't think you really understand my situation. I'm 17, I was homeschooled from 2nd grade on, and I live 25 miles from the nearest town. and It's my understanding, that it's about 12,000,000 times easier to learn a language if you have someone to speak with.
Since nobody lives around me anyway, the odds of finding anyone who just happens to speak Japanese is about 0%. Oh, and did I mention I can't drive either?
But anyway, If there's no chance of that approach... Has anyone tried that program "Human Japanese"? It's one that you download. There is a free demo that teaches you a few things. (Like Hiragana script) And it seems like a pretty good program. But, after spending 400 dollars on the "Rosetta Stone" program, and finding it, more or less useless, I'd like for someone to give me an idea of what Human Japanese is like before I buy it.
Thanks.

diceke · 19 Apr 2008

Bucket said:
I've heard this mentioned many times, but never found any concrete answers to my questions. First of all... Heh, is it possible to learn a foreign language by listening to educational tapes while you sleep? And if it works at all, is it possible to learn the whole language that way? Because I'm trying to learn from books right now.

Hypnopaedia is possible, according to one experiment. People can process information during sleep.☝

In 1952 the Journal of Experimental Psychology reported tests which had been conducted at George Washington University. Students were taught Chinese during sleep, between two-thirty and three A.M. The students were divided into three groups: the first group heard the Chinese words, but with mismatched English words; the second group heard the Chinese words and their English equivalents; the third group heard Strauss waltzes.

The first group required 11.1 repetitions; the second group mastered them in only 5.6 repetitions, and the third group needed 17.7 repetitions (so far as we know this group was not tested on their knowledge of Strauss waltzes).

http://www.sleep-learning-guide.com/page-47.html

JimmySeal · 19 Apr 2008

Bucket said:
Listen guys. It's not that I'm just looking for shortcuts, or an "easy way out" or anything like that. I just don't think you really understand my situation. I'm 17, I was homeschooled from 2nd grade on, and I live 25 miles from the nearest town. and It's my understanding, that it's about 12,000,000 times easier to learn a language if you have someone to speak with.

I still don't see a reason why you can't listen to those tapes while you're awake.

Bucket · 19 Apr 2008

JimmySeal said:
I still don't see a reason why you can't listen to those tapes while you're awake.

Well, you have a good point there. But see, I'd rather devote my waking hours to a more reliable way to learn. When I learn during the day, I use books. The way I see it, at night there is no distraction from the tapes. (Providing it works)
But, while you're awake, there are things to distract you. Specially Because I live in a 3 bedroom house with 6 people living in it. It's not easy to find a place where nobody is talking with someone, listening to music, watching television, playing video games, or whatever. And Ryuta Kawashima tells us that trying to learn in a busy environment splits your brain's focus, and makes your studies much less effective. Now I know, I probably just sound like I'm making excuses. But hey, I'm just trying to explain my situation.
But anyway, Maybe I could listen to tapes during the day too. But the reason I want the tapes for when I sleep is to aid in my studies, and help it stick in my mind, NOT to be my primary form of education. Do you get what I'm saying?

Tomii515 · 19 Apr 2008

Bucket said:
Listen guys. It's not that I'm just looking for shortcuts, or an "easy way out" or anything like that. I just don't think you really understand my situation. I'm 17, I was homeschooled from 2nd grade on, and I live 25 miles from the nearest town. and It's my understanding, that it's about 12,000,000 times easier to learn a language if you have someone to speak with.
Since nobody lives around me anyway, the odds of finding anyone who just happens to speak Japanese is about 0%. Oh, and did I mention I can't drive either?
But anyway, If there's no chance of that approach... Has anyone tried that program "Human Japanese"? It's one that you download. There is a free demo that teaches you a few things. (Like Hiragana script) And it seems like a pretty good program. But, after spending 400 dollars on the "Rosetta Stone" program, and finding it, more or less useless, I'd like for someone to give me an idea of what Human Japanese is like before I buy it.
Thanks.

ok. I know ur not trying to make excuses but look. I'm 14, I live in a small random town in Pennsylvania, niobe I know is learning it, I don't know ANY Japanese ppl in real life, and I can't drive either. yet ive been teaching myself successfully. just read everything outloud and buy books. get genki. wonderful book. also, download skype and search for random Japanese ppl and talk to them through mic. if u done have one, go buy one. likeeveryone else said, its gumna takes LOTS. of hard conscious work.

Bucket · 2 May 2008

I appreciate the advice, and I am aware that it will take dedication. And if there are two things I have, they're patience, and dedication. However, I don't think that searching for alternate easier ways of learning is wrong. I prefer to think of it as an innovative teaching method. And just so we're clear, (I forget if I already mentioned this) Japanese isn't the only language I want to learn. I know at this point it's a lot to heave onto my plate, but, I do want to learn 7 languages (including english) I'm not saying I'm 100% sure that I will ever accomplish it. I just mean that's my goal.

Haruspex · 2 May 2008

Well, go for it. Doing nothing is much worse than doing something pointless.

Zirdante · 2 May 2008

Just to clarify, the "Human Japanese" demo has all the features of the full version, and it only costs 24 dollars. Compared to the 400 you spent on Rosetta stone, its cheap as it gets.

Your first order of business is to learn Hiragana and Katakana inside and out. After that learn grammar and kanji.

By the way, do you have MSN messenger? I could send you a few good book for learning.

Ashikaga · 2 May 2008

Seems to me that there are many people (most of them young students) who talk about learning Japanese (or any language for that matter), moving to Japan, etc. and it's the only thing they do : talk about it.
If I really wanted to learn a language in real life and not in my pipe dreams (AND if I were 17 and had my entire life ahead of me), I wouldn't be wasting my time pondering the effectiveness of non-traditional methods but spending that time memorizing a few new words.
If you have the ways and means to find and access this forum, I don't think it matters where you live. Maybe you would want to post something in Japanese so some people can give you some practical pointers as to what you need to work on and how to go about it from their own experiences.
Personally, I think sleeping time should be spent dreaming about fast cars and boobies, NOT learning a new language.
Now, go study!

Bucket · 2 May 2008

OK... it really feels like you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying... I am trying to learn the language during my waking hours, It's not like I'm wasting all my time on this. I'm not just sputtering around, acting like sleeping is gonna solve all my problems. It's like I said before, it's just something I'm interested in. No matter what happens, I will eventually know the language. But I can't for the life of me see why looking into this is such a horrible idea.
Would you have acted like this if you met the man who invented the automatic dishwasher? "Why waste your time on that technology when you could just work hard, and wash them by hand?"
If nobody ever thought outside the box where would we be?

Zirdante · 2 May 2008

Its like defler said, It only works in Dexters laboratory "Amlet du fromache anyone?"

Inventing a dishwasher and learning in your sleep are two completely seperate things that shouldn't really be used in the same sentence.

And besides, in your sleep you process the things you LEARNED during the day, so better spend the night jackhammering the things to your brain that you learned during the day, rather than stuffing more in.

Bucket · 3 May 2008

I already knew that dishwashers and languages are different things, trust me on that.
I was only trying to put a point across. Admittedly, it doesn't make perfect sense. But, do at least see where I'm coming from?

Soloistic · 3 May 2008

It seems to me that the majority of answers to your question are similar. It won't work. If thats still not enough for you, I suggest going and talking to someone who specializes in this sort of thing instead of trying to get an answer from an internet community.

Nitram · 5 May 2008

Similar

@Bucket
I understand where your coming from, I'm very similar.
I'm Home Schooled also (since kindergarten), I'm also 17 years of age, Rosetta Stone doesn't work for me either.

I've also wondered about sleep learning but I don't know anything about it.
I might try it sometime.

I totally understand about the distractions
thats why sometimes i sleep during the day and study at night when everybody is asleep,
it's kinda a pain but it works for me.

Before i go to sleep i practice all the Japanese i can think of in my head that way when i go to sleep my mind will memorize it.

Look up Linkword it also works well for memorization.

Linkword is a mnemonic system promoted by Michael Gruneberg in the 1990s for learning languages based on the similarity of the sounds of words. The process involves creating an easily visualized scene that will link the words together. One example is the Russian word for cow (корова, pronounced roughly karova): think and visualize "I ran my car over a cow."

Many teachers and students of language have used the same technique, and many examples have been used independently by many people.
A criticism of mnemonic techniques such as this is that they tend to assume a one-to-one relationship between the learner's first language and the target language. In reality, words often have a different range of meanings, and so the student must learn the complexity or nuance of the new words. For this reason, such techniques may be seen as a useful and powerful way to progress in the language, especially in the early stages, rather than giving a complete understanding.
Critics also say that because the method relies on the coincidental similarities in the sounds of words, it cannot be used to teach all, or even most, words of another language as there may be no corresponding phonetically similar words or visualizations that could be used. In practice, however, there is usually a visualisation that can be used, but for some words it is a less direct connection and not as effective. In these cases, there is more need for other learning methods to support the visualization, such as repetition and flashcards.
While this method could be used to teach from any language to any language, it is currently used almost exclusively to teach English speaking people other languages. Many different companies offer systems based on this method, but the list of languages offered is almost identical. Learning courses have been developed to teach students Dutch, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese (both Brazilian and European), Russian, Spanish (both European and South American) and Welsh.

If your having trouble memorizing the hiragana/katakana script
i recommend

Declan's ReadWrite Hiragana
Declan's ReadWrite Katakana

I was having trouble memorizing the kana then i tried Declan's ReadWrite Hiragana and learned hiragana in two days.

I Hope i helped in some way.

Nitram - Living Outside The Box

bakaKanadajin · 6 May 2008

Ryuk said:
If you pay me £60 an hour I will stand in your room and speak Japanese while you sleep.

No wait that's kinda creepy. Just buy a textbook

buahaaha that made me laugh.

I tried doing this with a Spanish tape once, I listened to one of those tapes that's designed specifically for learning-by-tape (perhaps in your car or sitting on the plane). Aside from remembering the stuff said in the beginning of the tape, which I was listening to consciously, the 'unconsciously' learned material has yet to surface!

Good old review will be your only remedy. I spend entire sessions just reviewing, I have this thing about moving on before I've understood something to the fullest. I've found later material often builds directly on previous understanding and even if its not direct it really helps. So far it's working well.

slaughterj · 9 May 2008

Pimsleur's lessons were great, Rosetta Stone sucked after the intro section. Nothing to do with sleep-learning though.

SushiShin · 9 May 2008

It's funny but actually it really works! If you sleep while listening something your mind will program it. But that doesn't always work but it's a fact you can learn languages througout your sleep

Haruspex · 9 May 2008

You can't possibly learn properly while sleeping, your organism is "taking a nap", so everything is slower, like... imagine that less ram and processing power is allocated to a certain program, obviously it will run slower, and process less algorithms or whatever.

Bucket · 10 May 2008

Thanks nitram. It's nice to SOMEONE who can understand me.
And personally, I prefer to read for a while, then I go for a walk (usually about 10 miles) and just speak as much Japanese as I can think of, out loud. And I do the same thing as you, I study at night when nobody else is awake. But, I don't sleep during the day. I just stay awake forever.

Elizabeth · 10 May 2008

There was a thread a while back on subliminal learning. For me it's a too high risk strategy for practically zero satisfaction, but if you don't have access to Japanese news on the Intenet all day and night and don't spend or expect too much I suppose it can't be worse than nothing.

Subliminal Japanese.. do you think it would work? | Japan Forum

Ashikaga · 10 May 2008

Bucket said:
But, I don't sleep during the day. I just stay awake forever.

Really? Wow.

Oh wait... aren't you supposed to be asleep while listening to these tapes?

Who owns a tape player these days anyways...

Learn while you sleep?

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