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Kyuma apologizes, retracts comment on atomic bombing

I see. To leave out any confusement im refering to the part of the movie at the start when they are fighting the germanians, people that had been conquered and ruled by rome. The reason i assume we are not talking about the same part is that the people they were fighting didnt intend to kill Russel but were fighting for thier freedom against rome.
Like i said i wanted people to think about it without choosing a side but by trying to imagine being in their shoes for a minute and how they might of felt. Of course i have my opinions and you have yours and the next poster will have theirs also. I didnt post mine because its not my intention to start a new tick for tack arguement just for others to try and understand the mind of the defeated and im not asking anyone for theirs either, just that for a minute before the poster dismisses a post without thinking about it and jumping to their "sides" defence to think more about it. After all what answer or question is worth reading or writing if its not thought about seriously.
 
Nevertheless, the Japanese were not fighting for freedom from an occupying force; they were fighting to be able to be the occupying force and the US was only there in the first place to stop them from going any further (and we wouldn't have been doing that if they hadn't attacked us in the process).
Your analogy is ridiculous and you have the Romans and the Germanians reversed. Why can't you get it through your head that Japan was the aggressor, and America was the one fighting back?
 
....Have you read anything ive said? Im NOT asking you to take it as literal im asking you to show a little f-ing sympathy for the people who died. Does it matter who started it first? If you read anything ive said you might notice that ive said that Japan were the aggressor there is no denying that im not saying America were wrong for fighting back heck dont worry im not attacking your freedom for gods sake. Look at my flag where am i from? to say america was wrong is like saying england were wrong for fighting hilter. i dont care who started the war but i feel sorry for the innocents hurt weather they were english, jewish, german and dare i say Japanese. I dont care about who was right to start a war 50 years ago i care about the people that died. For ages we have been talking about Hiroshima, even if people knew their government was wrong what else can they do? run away like they did in russia and die for being traitors anyway? I cant believe someone can be so inhumane or am i just too innocent to know the ways of the adult world? Behind the words use the bomb are people on the other end who were not just sad stats for our history books. Do you know why an A-bomb is the last resort of war? Im trying to get you to understand the people that died but instead you'd rather force your opinions through your posts. I dont think you have thought about any posts on here at all but instead have been reacting right away to defend your countrys honour at all costs. You think america should of bombed hiroshima, i think that the amount of lives envolved were wasted thats the end of it i guess.

...oh and if my history or take of the movie isnt correct and that the roles were reversed does that mean that the germanians had conquered and ruled rome...and that it was rome that were fighting for freedom?
 
Like i said i wanted people to think about it without choosing a side but by trying to imagine being in their shoes for a minute and how they might of felt.
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Being in whose shoes the Roman's or Germanians? Either way one would have to choose a side.

Yet I think I understand your point, that you wanted people to think of it from all sides right? If that isnt the point then please correct me, because one would have to choose a side to imagine being in their shoes or feeling how they may have felt.

I didnt post mine because its not my intention to start a new tick for tack arguement just for others to try and understand the mind of the defeated and im not asking anyone for theirs either,
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That may not have been the intent, however if one is to understand the meaning and intent behind the actions of Kyuma it is necessary to understand the mindset of the Japanese, even though they were originally the agressors in WWII.

Too many times in regards to the issues raised by the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki it seems to me that many Japanese people, NOW, feel as if they were the victims. Yet they fail to study their own history and realize that they started the war and that they were and still today are paying the price for starting it and losing it for that matter.

There are no real winners in war, however there are losers on all sides, it isnt all black and white either.

However let's not forget one important fact, if Japan had not started the war in the Pacific one never knows but the bombs might never had been developed at that time nor used. Once again hindsight is 20/20.
 
Haha sorry i mustnt of wrote it correctly. sometimes you write things you understand without thinking others might not haha. But yes your correct i did want the posters to think about all sides, the romans, the germanians, the americans, the people of hiroshima at that time. I dont want to try and covert anyone to my way of thinking haha but maybe to try and understand it. Ive said in a previous post that i think the people of the said bombed cities were victims, in the sense they ended up being victims through their leaders ideals and ambitions. but i understand how you mean that overall people might feel like their country were the victims. Of course it takes all sorts but anyone from Japan ive spoken to about the war say that they cant have an army or other things because thats the price for starting and losing the war. I think in this sense maybe the government should take the stance that germany did by trying to educate their people who also feel like victims of hilter. Your 100% right there are no winners in war but i feel sorry for the civilians who die because of it as its always them who seem to pay the price weather they be chinese, korean, vietnamese, or whoever. I dont care about their race or nationality. A person i respect on here is Elizabeth, a dutch women who was personally a victim of the war at the hands of the Japanese yet trys to forgive them and also she visited the germans graves i really admire her way of thinking. I feel she doesnt worry about winners or losers but about the sheer amount of lives lost. Thats whats important to me too.
I do think that even without the war the bombs would of been developed maybe by germany i heard once that they were close to making one before surrendering who knows if it wasnt made and used maybe it would of been my country, my city that it was used on.
 
if Japan had not started the war in the Pacific one never knows but the bombs might never had been developed at that time nor used. Once again hindsight is 20/20.
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I dont think so at all.
and if US never had not planed...
I think your view of WAR started from 1941?
I understandThe holocaust ends war fast
I think time has come that Japan counterattack for comfor waman issue.
Next is Iraq problem..
I t will be interesting..
The hatred will spread, too by Past history.
chinese are pleased Now
Japanese at war, as a result, Japan lost WAR, they lost Land.
wvwn today many asian might be still slaves of them?
BTW Kyuma was a clown for that?

Sinocentrism rocks
 
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What you don't understand caster is that while you are saying that America was wrong to kill civilians, the Japanese killed far, far more civilians in many different horrible ways.

You can't talk about one and not talk about the other.

And "counterattack" for the sex slaves issue? Why is that? Are you going to deny it outright now?
 
Ewok is right you cant say poor Japan without saying poor china and korea. Ive been trying to say that for a while but while everyone wants to say japan did this and that no one wants to agree that america did the same things (comfort women and the issue of bombing civilians). I think every country envolved did something wrong its just the measurement of what they did. Even England who only defended themselves bombed a church in germany to break moral. But while A blames B and B defends themselves while blaming C these posts often get lost and it stops being a thread that considered the victims and becomes a blaming game.
 
And "counterattack" for the sex slaves issue? Why is that? Are you going to deny it outright now?
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Of course.
I can not understand this foolish at all that american congress is about to judge the History by majority rulewithout any investigation and evidences.
Because they just feel " POOR women"
American Justice is Just Feeling? without an objective evidence
because of Christianity?
it is scary
bring an evidence if there is ..
it is really nagative culture shock for Japanese.
again, history is not like the religion
this comfot women's ,This problem struck the ugly wedge into the relation between Japan-U.S..

we remember the there was no evidevce that Iraq was having...

and they Knew it
that is way USA could atecked from beginning...
 
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Let me share with everyone here what I think Caster's view of Japan in WWII is.....oopps first off the "name" it isn't WWII but "The Pacific War".
Anyway Japan did not "invade" any country in the region, they liberated Korea, parts of China, the Phillipines, and everywhere else they set their footprint. They tried to liberate Australia but were stopped by the barbarians and their allies. The reason for this liberation was not for increasing their access to natural resources which as everyone here knows Japan is very limited in but to stop "western" read that as "white" hegemony in the region. Japan wanted to liberate it's fellow Asian's.

Now then along the way their troops needed to be comforted because they were so far from their "women" back home so the military contracted out to local business men for something in the neighborhood of 200,000 hookers.
Hell it didnt matter how they got the women or girls nothing matter except "comforting" the liberating troops. Poor innocent girls, what do you mean, hell they got better pay than the generals.

This issue is mostly coming from Korea, they are just mad at us because we couldn't finish what we started when we liberated them back in 1905. They want us to come back, but since we refuse they want us to pay money for some phantom Comfort Women thing. Who ever heard of that, they were prostitutes. Once a girl takes the money you know what that makes her...a prostitute. She didnt "have" to do it, she could have killed herself instead.

Just like the poor Japanese girls did when the big bad US Military invaded our little island paradise. Rape, you gotta be kidding me the men paid good money for their services, where does rape come into it. Any man that raped a woman would have been shot, nope never happened just a figment of you imagination, give me proof. Hard evidence.


The US Military raped thousands maybe millions of Japanese women and girls and nothing was ever done about it. Why should we Japanese have to acknowledge this "Comfort Women" issue, the Americans are guilty of worse. Show me "evidence" that these women were coorced.

Oh I wont accept "human" testimony only something written in Japanese by the Japanese government. Everything that is in English isnt verifiable from the Japanese government so I wont believe it.

Oh also there was a "rumor" as well of one unit 731, that supposedly performed all sorts of experiments on, heaven forbid, humans from among the people that Japan liberated. But no, it wasnt like that they were all dead already before any experiments were performed, Japan is being "falsely" accused here. We would never do that. Show me the "evidence".

Oh I also digress, Rape of Nanking, what's that the name of a new ramen? Never heard of it. Ahh the battle, there was no "rape", 200,000 deaths, you gotta be kidding the Japanese Army didn't have 20,000 bullets how are they going to murder, and rape that many people. It's just propaganda by the Chinese government to get us to pay them more money. There is no "proof".

There is just so much more to write...but to make a long story short we Japanese are unjustly being forced to admit things we didnt do. We have to rewrite our history books because we were forced by those American's that invaded our country and perverted our minds by telling us we did something "wrong" by trying to liberate the world....sorry I mean Asia.

How dare they turn our own people against us.

People remember we are the victim's here, the US dropped those two bombs on us and look at all the people that died. Feel sorry for us, we deserve the pity. They should be held responsible. Pearl Harbor...what's that a new restraunt in Shinjuku.

This is just a small portion of how I feel Caster views Japan and it's part in WWII. Some is pure speculation, however some is from research of a number of his previous posts here on Jref.
 

at first I never said Japan never invaded





yes they were prostitute.
it was not Japanese army's business


Dont make a faked story


this became big discussion in the Japanese cogress at that time.
there are so many record of proceedings

Oh I wont accept "human" testimony only something written in Japanese by the Japanese government. Everything that is in English isnt verifiable from the Japanese government so I wont believe it.
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you are a racist





why dont US Open it to the Pubic?
there are all doccument about 731 in USA
there is a reson that US cannot open?



Yes it is
WAR DAMAGE IN THE NANKING AREA
December, 1937 to March, 1938
著者名 Dr.Lewis S. C. Smythe(Professor of Sociology, University of Nanking)AND ASSISTANTS
出版社 THE MERCURY PRESS, SHANGHAI, CHINA

http://www.history.gr.jp/~nanking/LSCSmythe.pdf




There is just so much more to write...but to make a long story short we Japanese are unjustly being forced to admit things we didnt do. We have to rewrite our history books because we were forced by those American's that invaded our country and perverted our minds by telling us we did something "wrong" by trying to liberate the world....sorry I mean Asia.

Yes we are contributing now.
which is more important " today's reality or indecisive past"

The Making of Modern Asia
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,501050815-1090825,00.html

asia is not only china and Korea
 
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Caster you missed the point of this post altogether. Please note the words "how I feel Caster views Japanand it's part in WWII ". This is my opinion of how you view things that happened during WWII. That comes from quite a few of your posts all over this board in your responses to these issues.

Someone told me that if it wasnt such a serious topic it might actually be funny, but Caster many times your replies on some of these topics read just like what I wrote above here, somewhere out of left field of the ballpark in the next county, or outerspace, take your pick.

you are a racist
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Oh I forgot to add resorting to "name-calling" defeats any valid points you may or may not have.
 
Hi Obeika,

Caster51's interpretation or his view on how WWII came over Japan, is because the Japanese Ministry of Education has taught him so.

When I was in Japan with a group of Dutch people who like me grew up in Indonesia, four of us were allowed to tell our war stories at several universities and one highschool. There were good dicussions with the students of the universities. But at the highschool in Kyoto, we were not allowed to speak to the pupils. There was a control (check on) of what we were telling the boys and girls. Three of us ( no not me) said what e-minister Kyuma said; "the A-bombs also saved many lives"'. When we were back in Holland the Japanese ambassador was very angry about these words so we were told.

My point is that the Japanese children between 16 and 18 years old where not allowed to ask us questions. In my eyes they were old enough to think for themselves.
But no, the Ministry of Education thinks for them. I think that it is extremely important in life, to learn to think for yourself and learn that the world is much bigger than the place where you live. Learn that life is not just black or white. Learn as young as possible that one can make friends with people from all over the world.
 
Caster51's interpretation or his view on how WWII came over Japan, is because the Japanese Ministry of Education has taught him so.
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??
I am not so old like you
my kid is still 9 years old
i was taught by commie teacher in 80'

today, youger genration are increasing to realized it like me
it is a reflection of Exterm education.

most ppl dont want to discuss it with Foreigner because it makes a trouble(quarrel ) in friendly place.
it might be Parallel lines. They are pretending that they consent.

that is Tatemae. Wa shite douzesu
 
Hello Elizabeth, Thank you for sharing here again.
I understand your point about Caster. His posts on many of these issues related to WWII and Japan's part in said history leave me scratching my head in amazement.

my kid is sill 9 years old
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Caster when I was 9 my Dad was 64 years old.
 
Caster,
Yes, you are still very young, so it is now that you can learn so much!
And every generation has big problems, such is life. Today we have to deal with terrorists and with our dramaticily destroyed Earth. All of us have made a mess of it.
World War Two ended 62 years ago, now it is time to write down the things that really happened. It is good to know for all of us: to to learn how and why this terrible war could happen in Europe and in Asia. We have to learn from the past and then shake hands.

Caster I was just 16 year old when a Japanese doctor saved my younger sisters life. He sent my mother and sister to a hospital in Malang, East Java
and he gave my mother several medicines, that helped us a little later on in our concentration camp in Banyu Biru, Central Java.

So I was 16 years old when I learnt, that there are good and bad people all over the world. This Japanese doctor was a very fine man.
 
Three of us ( no not me) said what e-minister Kyuma said; "the A-bombs also saved many lives"'. When we were back in Holland the Japanese ambassador was very angry about these words so we were told.
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Elizabeth van Kampen, your stories are really interesting, but when did you come to Japan? And how many times?
Correct me if I am wrong, but you came to Japan just once. You were not in Japan at the time of the kyuma's statement.

FYI, many Japanese teachers are more liberal than you think.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but you came to Japan just once. You were not in Japan at the time of the kyuma's statement.
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Elizabeth was commenting that she said the same thing that Kyuma said, not that she was here when he said it.

Plus;

When we were back in Holland the Japanese ambassador was very angry about these words so we were told.
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I know, but the logic of the friend of Elizabeth van Kampen is very dangerous that he/she gave the meaning of the nuke.

Ladies and gentlemen, I was 14 years young when Japan occupied the former Dutch East Indies, a school girl and I was 18 years old when that war was over.
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I like her stories, but this is what I can not agree with her. Just imagine if a Japanese poster would say similar thing like her.
 
Pipokun,

It was in October 2000 that I was only for 2 weeks in Japan.
No none of us ever met Mr. Kyuma. And of course does the whole world know about Hiroshima, ever since this town was bombed. But I'm afraid a lot less of Nagasaki, I find that a pity.

Not the Japanese teachers are a problem, but the Ministry of Education is.
When they forbid foreighners to talk with highschool boys and girls between 16 and 18 years old about WWII, then I don't see that as mistake from the teachers.

Please allow me to try to get a few things strait? I can't speak for others but this is how I have always seen WWII: During WWII there were German and Japanese war criminals and all the others were german people, German soldiers, Japanese people and Japanese soldiers.
Not even every Kempeitai or every Gestapo was a war criminal!
Just as today non of us would call every Muslim a terrorist.

I think, that is also what Obeika and several others try to tell the Japanese like you pipokun and caster51.

We call war criminals, war criminals, all the others are absolute no war criminals, just soldiers or whatever, doing their job. Fighting and doing their utmost best for their countries.

Germany had no problems in seeing this, they accepted that their war criminals were punished for what they have done wrong to others.
But many Japanese refuse to call Japanese war criminals as such. It always the other countries who were wrong.
And you pipokun can't even understand that I don't blame young Japanese men and women for what happened to my family during WWII. You and your parents were born after that war, so why on earth should I dislike you?
But I blame the Japanese government from 1937 till 1945. Governments in all countries over the world are responsible for what happens in their country pipokun.
The Japanese government has to take the responsability whether they like it or not. Archives have to opened, but then all of them, in America and in all the once occupied countries by Japan as well. Only then we can see what really happened.
 
Not the Japanese teachers are a problem, but the Ministry of Education is.
When they forbid foreighners to talk with highschool boys and girls between 16 and 18 years old about WWII, then I don't see that as mistake from the teachers.
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Do you know the govenement gives subsidies even to North Korean supporting schools in Japan?

If the bureucrats really forbade you to talk what you wanted, the liberal teachers must be upset to hear that.
I just imagine...
At the school, you made speech about your stories, but you did not have QA session with students.
What did you do at the highschool? Nothing?
 
Well giving subsidies to North Korea, that is wonderful.

I wish you a nice weekend.
 
I like her stories, but this is what I can not agree with her. Just imagine if a Japanese poster would say similar thing like her.
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You can't agree for what reason? I can not imagine a Japanese poster saying the same things because Japan was the agressor back then.

Your point of view and way of thinking is too narrow minded in my opinion to see that. You seem to deny at every given opportunity anything that puts Japan in a poor light. Japan started the war and the US finished it. There are victims on all sides, however Japan should never forget that it was Japan that was the aggressor not the US.



YES, Elizabeth well said. Politicians dont fight wars, regular folks like you and I are forced into it. Whether or not we believe in what we are fighting for, or possibly brainwashed into thinking is the reason.

And I think that the Japanese government at the time truly brainwashed it's people into believing so many lies about the reasons for the war in the first place.

That is what people are trying to stop today.
 
Today, there are many coutries that have many A^boms.

what did they learn from Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Did they learn "A-bomd saved more Japanese"?

this logic will be used every excuses.
someday A-bomd may be dropped in USA.
I would be happy for this excuse

However . it is not learnt what real stupid is..from human history

Look at this stupid american guy
he never added a comment even like this " it was very regarettable that there were many victimes..."

There are victims on all sides, however Japan should never forget that it was Japan that was the aggressor not the US
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.


American has gone beyond the limit line as a human.
Lool at today, they are still planing to Use it definitely
 
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