ippaku suru heya - why SURU?

B

berkov

Registered

2 Apr 2014

4

0

• 2 Apr 2014

• #1

Hey ho ALL!
this is actually my first thread and I'm really curious how it all works here.
ok so .. let;s get straight to the thing..
Why do we say ippaku SURU heya (...ga hoshii desu) ... can't we just say ippaku heya ga....?
i saw in my conversation book that they skip SURU but only in case of talking about weeks - isshuukan heya
... so my question is if that to be (suru) really needs to be there,
thanks in advance for your time.
berkov

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 2 Apr 2014

• #2

"Ippaku suru" is a verb, meaning "to stay overnight". However, in the phrase "ippaku suru heya", "ippaku suru" is actually an attributive clause whose subject(I or we) is omitted, thus, "ippaku suru heya" means "a room I/we (will) stay overight".
As for "isshūkan heya", "isshūkan" doesn't modify "heya". Grammatically, these two words have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure there MUST be a verb after "heya" in the sentence. "Isshūkan" performs as an adverb to modifiy the verb.

 

B

berkov

Registered

2 Apr 2014

4

0

• 2 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #3

Toritoribe, thanks for the reply!

ok so can I treat ippaku as an adverb the same way as with isshūkan? e.g. ippaku heya ga hoshii desu?
or, can i say ippaku iru heya ga ...

btw the example with isshūkan was: isshūkan heha ga hoshii desu.

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 2 Apr 2014

• #4

"Ippaku" is a noun. It's acceptable only when being used with verbs that means "to stay" such like "tomaru", "taizai suru" or "tōryū suru". (Even with these verbs, I would use "hitoban" instead of "ippaku".)
"Isshūkan heya ga hoshii desu" is not grammatically correct, although it's understandable enough. It should be "Isshūkan heya ga karitai desu".

 

B

berkov

Registered

2 Apr 2014

4

0

• 2 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #5

Ok in that case i believe there must be a mistake in my japanese book as the example given was exactly: isshūkan heya ga hoshii desu...
anyways.. last question, you mentioned that ippaku is a noun but isshukan acts like adverb. why? in my eyes they should be representing the same with one exception that first one is "one night" the other "one week", or am i confusing something?

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 2 Apr 2014

• #6

berkov said:

first one is "one night"

Click to expand...

This misunderstanding is the key of your confusion. "Ippaku" doens't mean "one night". It's "one night stay", therefore "ippaku suru(lit. "to do one night stay")" means "to stay overight". "One night" is "hitoban", as in my previous post.

 

B

berkov

Registered

2 Apr 2014

4

0

• 3 Apr 2014

• Thread starter
• #7

AHH.. now i got it!.. thanks a lot... finally it makes sense..

Can i have very very last question which just came to my mind?

Why do we say Isshūkan heya and not Isshūkan no heya? like we e.g. say hiroI heya or kirei NAheya?
i know this is probably very basic question but....

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Moderator

Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

18,266

4,926

• 3 Apr 2014

• #8

Toritoribe said:

As for "isshūkan heya", "isshūkan" doesn't modify "heya". Grammatically, these two words have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure there MUST be a verb after "heya" in the sentence. "Isshūkan" performs as an adverb to modifiy the verb.

Click to expand...

As I wrote, "isshūkan" modifies "karitai", not "heya". In your examples "hiroi heya" and "kireina heya", the two adjectives "hiroi" and "kireina" both describe a state of the room ("wide room" and "clean room"), whereas "isshūkan" is a length of time to rent, not a description about the room. In fact, "Heya wo/ga isshūkan karitai desu" has completely the same meaning as "Isshūkan heya wo/ga karitai desu".

 

Last edited: 3 Apr 2014