If you had a choice.....

jonny-mt said:

JLPT

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Meh; I did not say a thing about JLPT. I'm talking about reality, not some test.

Gaijinian said:

Meh; I did not say a thing about JLPT. I'm talking about reality, not some test.

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I know you didn't--I'm the one who brought it up. Since this topic is about the importance of different areas of linguistic skill, I thought it was an appropriate example of something used as a benchmark for "fluency" that, by not testing one of said aspects, fails in that regard. To take one of my aquaintences (friend-of-a-friend) as an example, he has passed JLPT 1 but speaks painfully slow, occasionally inappropriate (not as in "rude" but as in "sounds strange") Japanese--from the sounds of it, Hachiro could speak rings around him, but he probably couldn't pass JLPT 1.

Which one you would consider more fluent is related to how you answer the poll.

jonny-mt said:

The typical order of skill development when acquiring a second language goes like so:
Reading > Listening > Writing > Speaking
This makes sense, as comprehension almost always outpaces production, even in one's native language. Although there is some fuzziness regarding whether listening or writing skills develop first, the general concept is that reading and writing provide you more time to think about and digest the language while listening and speaking require almost instantaneous comprehension and response. Admittedly, the utilization of kanji throws a bit of a kink into developing those reading skills in languages like Japanese and Chinese, but the use of furigana or Pinying can help one get around that.
This is why JLPT Level 1 does not equate full fluency--in addition to the fact that it is merely a marker of whether you are "functionally fluent" (10,000 words, a good chunk of kanji), there is no speaking or writing section, and so you may get someone who aced the test and can get by fine in daily life only to find themselves lost when the conversation turns to abstract or specialized topics. Likewise, someone who may be able to produce a fairly good essay or letter may get flustered or make a number of simple mistakes when put on the spot in an interview or conversation.

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I think you are spot on there with regard to your opinion on the JLPT. I feel that way very often too. I took the test, mastered most of the kanjis (not the gitaigo or giongo though), but when I wanted to say such simple thing as "answer the telephone for me", previously I would have said something like "denwa no juwaki wo hiroiagete kure". But later I found out that one should just say "denwa ni dete kure". Throughout my years studying for the JLPT and going through so many reading materials I didn't know such usage until talking about it with my friend. I did not live in a Japanese speaking environment and I was learning the language by myself, so I had to go great lengths in just learning these simple terms.

haha, taking away the imaginary limitations

this is so easy u can get 2 birds with one stone.

pick reading and writing, if u can read and write fluently, it wouldn't be so hard or nearly impossible to not be able to speak japanese fluently.

though on the other hand, if u can speak japanese fluently, u can still be illiterate.

I took the test, mastered most of the kanjis (not the gitaigo or giongo though), but when I wanted to say such simple thing as "answer the telephone for me", previously I would have said something like "denwa no juwaki wo hiroiagete kure". But later I found out that one should just say "denwa ni dete kure".

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You can still say 'Please pick up the phone for me' without any problem it just becomes slightly idiomatically "Juwaki wo toriagete kure (kudasai)."

Elizabeth said:

You can still say 'Please pick up the phone for me' without any problem it just becomes slightly idiomatically "Juwaki wo toriagete kure (kudasai)."

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It's still literal, Elizabeth.

Picking up the phone receiver is "juwaki wo toru."

epigene said:

It's still literal, Elizabeth.
Picking up the phone receiver is "juwaki wo toru."

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I guess I did get a tad ahead of myself there...My thinking was of "toriageru"
as I had seen it before in the more abstract uses of "picking up on"
"featuring" or "bringing up" like broaching a subject at negotiations or in a meeting or something. And these all may be misinterpretations....

Speaking...

...there are a lot of reasons for both sides, but ultimately I'd rather be able to speak a language and not be able to read or write it than to be literate in a language I couldn't speak.

I have one question to the 8 people (so far at least) that replied to the poll stating that they would rather be able to read and write the language fluently vs being able to speak the language fluently.

What goals do you have or want to have that would allow you to be fluent or literate in reading and writing and not speaking the language? Or per chance are you assuming that because you would be able to read and write the language you assume that you will also be able to speak the language as well?

Well, they might simply be more interested in being able to read signs/books/labels than being able to communicate verbally in japanese.

That was one of the main reasons I had for chosing the other way--but in the end I figured being able to talk smack in Japanese during a sparring match would mean more to me than being able to read all those untranslated mangas I've seen on the filesharing--er--on the import store websites, yeah, that's it.

Since there was no "both" option I had to go with speaking. I'd much rather be able to interact with the Japanese on a personal level than just read books and signs. Being able to talk to Japanese would, to me, be a much more valuable commodity. They are amazing people.

Of course anyone would want to be able to do both! (Speak/understand, and read/write.) And the best way to learn any language thoroughly is to learn with a nice balance on both. But I'm assuming the question is hypothetical; along the lines of, "If a miracle could happen and you could wake up in the morning with suddenly a fluency in one aspect of the language, which would you rather it was?"
I'd choose speaking/understanding. From my viewpoint, the purpose of language is for communication, and communication through speaking is the most widely used. ^^ Additionally, as someone pointed out, if you can speak the language quite fluently, it's easier to get a native speaker to help you with the reading and writing.
As for how I am trying to learn . . . I just went to a regular college evening class, at level 1 only (nvq level 1), and the tutor was a native Japanese speaker. We learned speaking first, and had some written notes in romaji for the first few lessons (because you need some way of remembering!), then we learned hiragana/katakana (well, I'm slightly biased because I knew them already ^^), and during the course we learned the speaking and the reading/writing in kana simultaneously. Some people were slow at learning the kana, though...
I think that learning the speaking and the writing tend to naturally work side by side when learning another language, because you need to have some kind of memory-jogger to remind you of the sounds of what you've learnt! If you can't write it down, it's much harder to hold the sound in your memory! (I find that writing something down helps greatly to fix it in my memory. )
Of course, if you are living in Japan and hear the language a lot, you probably wouldn't need to write it down nearly so much in order to remember. I'm just thinking of people like me, learning by classes and self-study. ><
Also, I find that learning certain things in speech first, makes learning kanji a lot easier. Because of the different readings... if you were to just attempt to learn the readings, it can be a little confusing. But if you already know the words/phrases in which they're used, it all falls into place when you see the kanji! (For example, 'ima' and 'ko'... they don't sound related, but once you have learned, 'ima' as 'now', and 'kotoshi' as 'this year', it makes perfect sense and you can't forget those readings! ) (sorry, I can't type kanji on this machine >< -_-)