Help if you can speak french

dreamer · 9 Nov 2006

Well actually this one's a little bit tricky, I just wanted to play around ^^
You see, "ma" finishes by a vowel and "ancienne" begins by a vowel as well.
Therefore in this case you replace "ma" by "mon".

eg:
-a sword is "une epée", it's feminine but begins by a vowel. You then say "mon epée"
-a match is "une allumette" and is feminine as well but you still say "mon allumette"

In these examples I didn't use any adjective, but the the same applies. Now as for puting the adjective before or after the noun, well... it's all a matter of making the sentence more stylish or not and I shall not try to explain it for I may write a very confusing post...

PS: There might be some counter exemple but I can think of any at the moment.

miki78 · 9 Nov 2006

I get it i........think ^^;;

Erm so i can only use the mon with ancient right OK *passes out*

Thankyou everybody ^^

dreamer · 9 Nov 2006

miki78 said:
I get it i........think ^^;;
Erm so i can only use the mon with ancient right OK *passes out*
Thankyou everybody ^^

Because in this case "ancienne" begins by a vowel, you also have to say
"Mon abominable petite soeur" (une soeur)
or "Mon élégante demeure" (une demeure)

Kinsao · 9 Nov 2006

But if you put the "ancienne" after the word "rose", it wouldn't have to take "mon", because it wouldn't be next to a vowel. Isn't that right? And am I right in thinking that if she wants to mean "ancient", she should put the word "ancienne" afterwards rather than before? :?

dreamer · 9 Nov 2006

Kinsao said:
But if you put the "ancienne" after the word "rose", it wouldn't have to take "mon", because it wouldn't be next to a vowel. Isn't that right? And am I right in thinking that if she wants to mean "ancient", she should put the word "ancienne" afterwards rather than before? :?

Indeed if the adjective is after the noun in this case it would be ma rose ancienne. Now as for the translation, I'd say that it depends wether she wants to empathize the relation between ancient and rose or silent and rose...

Seon-a Kim · 9 Nov 2006

>_< This all gets to complicated for me now.

Aren't you from France dreamer? Looking at the image of the flag...

Kinsao · 9 Nov 2006

dreamer said:
Indeed if the adjective is after the noun in this case it would be ma rose ancienne. Now as for the translation, I'd say that it depends wether she wants to empathize the relation between ancient and rose or silent and rose...

Dreamer... I know you are French ... so may I ask... in English translation, when the "ancienne" comes before the noun, I am used to translate that as something more like "old" rather than directly "ancient". For example, you can talk about "mon ancien ami". - an "old friend" (i.e. a friend you've had for a long time). But if you said "mon ami ancien" that would imply that your friend was, well, ancient! So there's a slight difference in the translation... I guess it depends on how old the rose is... :?

dreamer · 10 Nov 2006

Ayu-youkou said:
>_< This all gets to complicated for me now.

Aren't you from France dreamer? Looking at the image of the flag...

Actually I am chinese, born and educated in France and now lost in the US
(and I hope I will be eligible to go to Sendai next year)

Kinsao said:
Dreamer... I know you are French ... so may I ask... in English translation, when the "ancienne" comes before the noun, I am used to translate that as something more like "old" rather than directly "ancient". For example, you can talk about "mon ancien ami". - an "old friend" (i.e. a friend you've had for a long time). But if you said "mon ami ancien" that would imply that your friend was, well, ancient! So there's a slight difference in the translation... I guess it depends on how old the rose is... :?

Hum... interresting question...
Usually, the adjective "ancien/ancienne" is used for objects, it also emphatize the value given to the object. The only few time I've seen the term "ancient" used with living beings, it was in fantasy (ie ancient dragon, ancient beast).
When you say "Mon ancien ami", it sounds a little awkward and when hearing it, I'd think that the relationship is now over. Contrarily "mon vieil ami" emphatize a "good old" relationship (a lil bit more familiar but closer at the same time). As for "Mon ami ancien", this one is grammatically wrong if you leave it like that ^^;
Actually it's a matter of the term "ancien" being adjective or attribute but I fear we are getting far from the thread's subject....
(If anyone is interrested, I can give more explanation on how it works either via PM or by posting it on another thread)

Wew...well it might be a little confusing...tehehe

ricecake · 11 Nov 2006

I took French in both junior high and high school years as an elective class,more for recreational learning.

I've always love all things culturally French since my teen years,I entertain the notion being a Francophile.

miki78 · 12 Nov 2006

^^;; um this is all very confusing could sombody please tell me again how to say

my silent ancient rose

my silent black rose

my silent red rose

I'v gotten completly lost the name is for a male charicter but he is kinda based on Mana Sama so ^^;;

dreamer · 13 Nov 2006

miki78 said:
So uuummm i can use mon instead of ma???????????

It depends which one you pick...^^;

Kinsao · 13 Nov 2006

dreamer said:
It depends which one you pick...^^;

Well, isn't it true to say, she will use 'ma' for them (because 'rose' is feminine), with the one exception being 'mon' for 'ancienne' because you can't have 2 'a's together ('ma ancienne' is wrong)...

dreamer · 14 Nov 2006

Errr I meant to say it depends wether she chooses:

A) Ma silencieuse rose ancienne
B) Mon ancienne rose silencieuse

miki78 · 15 Nov 2006

Er what about if i say my ancient silent red rose ? ^^;;

Kinsao · 15 Nov 2006

^ ... Must you?

miki78 · 16 Nov 2006

I'm so confused maybe i should name him Fred LOL

I still don't know how to say any of the things i asked LOL you guys are so brainy LOL

Could i ask again please lol how do you say for a charicter like Mana Sama ^^;;

My Ancient black rose
My Ancient red rose
My Ancient silent rose
My silent ancient rose
My silent black rose
My silent red rose
My ancient silent red rose

LOL yes there is more LOL

Thanks in advance ^^

dreamer · 17 Nov 2006

Could you please precise what you empathize when you have ancient and silent woth rose?
I mean which relation is the most important?

BTW: me is just a very very dumb little chinese who couldn't even learn how to write his own language

Qutiepie · 17 Nov 2006

Ahem,you're French not Chinese for being born and bred in the country of France.No need penalize oneself for not knowing the language of a foreign nation despite the fact there is shared blood.

America has people of many ancestries like German,Italian,Russians,Arabs,plus many more don't speak or write those languages and there is nothing dumb about them.

miki78 · 17 Nov 2006

dreamer your NOT dumb you run circles round me with all this

And the only languege i speak is english and i'm useless at it really i don't even know what a noun and verb is thats the prb with dislexia LOL

Do you mean what i most want to put across in the name if you do then i would say the word Silent ^^

Kinsao · 17 Nov 2006

^ in that case i guess it would be "ma silencieuse rose ancienne"...

okies...

My Ancient black rose - mon ancienne rose noire
My Ancient red rose - mon ancienne rose rouge
My Ancient silent rose - mon ancienne rose silencieuse
My silent ancient rose - ma silencieuse rose ancienne
My silent black rose - ma silencieuse rose noire
My silent red rose - ma silencieuse rose rouge
My ancient silent red rose - mon ancienne rose rouge et silencieuse

Dreamer - any advance on that? :?

dreamer · 18 Nov 2006

Qutiepie said:
Ahem,you're French not Chinese for being born and bred in the country of France.No need penalize oneself for not knowing the language of a foreign nation despite the fact there is shared blood.
America has people of many ancestries like German,Italian,Russians,Arabs,plus many more don't speak or write those languages and there is nothing dumb about them.

Well out of all my friends who were born in France I'm the only one unable to read/write chinese (as well as the one who knows the less foreign languages) so there might be a slight probleme here ^^;

miki78 said:
dreamer your NOT dumb you run circles round me with all this
And the only languege i speak is english and i'm useless at it really i don't even know what a noun and verb is thats the prb with dislexia LOL
Do you mean what i most want to put across in the name if you do then i would say the word Silent ^^

well I don't think I have the level to start an english grammar course here (I'll leave that to Miss Kinsao). Basically what I mean by empathize is something like:
If you were to rearrange/reformulate the term "My ancient silent rose", would you prefer to say
-My ancient rose is silent => empathize on ancient (which is really "part" of the rose)
-my silent rose is ancient => empathize on silent

Kinsao said:
^ in that case i guess it would be "ma silencieuse rose ancienne"...
okies...
My Ancient black rose - mon ancienne rose noire
My Ancient red rose - mon ancienne rose rouge
My Ancient silent rose - mon ancienne rose silencieuse
My silent ancient rose - ma silencieuse rose ancienne
My silent black rose - ma silencieuse rose noire
My silent red rose - ma silencieuse rose rouge
My ancient silent red rose - mon ancienne rose rouge et silencieuse
Dreamer - any advance on that? :?

Wow I'm amazed your french must be better than my crap english. ^^
Still I'd formulate the last sentence: "My ancient silent red rose" as
"Mon ancienne rose rouge silencieuse" (no need for the "et" here)
Otherwise Miki78, if you allow me a comment, if you really want to use flower names for your male characters, why not using masculine ones?
Here is a list found on google :

EarthlyPursuits

miki78 · 18 Nov 2006

Thankyou very much everybody i get it now ^_^

The charicter is based on Mana Sama so masculine wouldn't really be aproprate LOL ^^

But thankyou very much for the site i love the meanings of flowers and that site is great \(^O^)/

dreamer · 20 Nov 2006

Well What I mean is using a masculine noun instead of a feminine one.
ie: Venus looking glass is a flower which name sounds feminine and still, in french it is translated as "un mirroir de venus"

Anyway, this was just a suggestion.
Glad to be of help sometimes

miki78 · 27 Nov 2006

You have been of great help thankyou very much ^_^

And that flower site is fantastic again thankyou

Help if you can speak french

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