Have nihongo learning resources evolved?

G

Genecks

先輩

24 Jul 2005

27

1

• 25 Aug 2005

• #1

Back in about January when I was at my prime there some resources being built more and more.

There were some resources on the web for learning nihongo, not many were very accurate, many people told authors of the websites they wanted change in the site layout.

So, I was wondering, "How have resources changed in the past six months?"

What good resources have you picked up along your travels?
Found any good tutorial sites?
What are some of the best websites for learning nihongo?

Basically I'm looking for a really long list of things that will help my proficiency along with build my kanji skills. I think that was one of the hardest things around, putting kanji into sentences and teaching nihongo with hira/kana and learning the kanji and why/how it's used in the sentence.

*don't mind me if this seems like babble, i only get 5 hours of sleep a day.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 25 Aug 2005

• #2

I would suggest using net-based resources as adjunct learning material, not a primary source.

 

G

Genecks

先輩

24 Jul 2005

27

1

• 25 Aug 2005

• Thread starter
• #3

Alright then mike, tell me what books have gotten better. I've seen a lot of books that try to teach japanese, and they just have awful translations that I could point out to the original author.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 25 Aug 2005

• #4

Danged if I know what books have gotten better. It has been quite a while since I studied Japanese.

In what way do you mean the translations are awful? If the author is going for a close literal translation in order to help learners get a grasp of the different way that things are phrased in Japanese, then it really can't be helped. If the author is going for a functional translation and is missing the boat, then that is a different matter, of course.

 

G

Genecks

先輩

24 Jul 2005

27

1

• 25 Aug 2005

• Thread starter
• #5

In one book I had that author had

"No smoking in here"
when the translation should have been
"No tobacco in here."

verb vs. noun. That's a no-no.

So, if I was smoking a blunt up in Japan (if it's legal?) some guy told me it was tobacco i'd raise a brow . There's a difference of a verb vs. noun inside of a sentence.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 25 Aug 2005

• #6

What was the original Japanese?

Is it safe to take from your comments that you're a stickler for direct translation?

 

GaijinPunch

遠いから行きません

25 Nov 2004

1,275

34

• 26 Aug 2005

• #7

You need to get over "bad" translations. If not, you will nit-pick anything and everything you come across down the road. There's a lot of creativity involved when translating from langauges which have such little common ground.

Back on the topic, I don't use many books, although I could stand to. When I studied Japanese, an electronic dictionary (like Bookhself, which is fantastic) was just a dream. That, and Japanese webapges is my main source of new vocabulary, which I think is much faster than the old textbook + dictionary method. I don't think it's a good method for beginners though... at all.

 

Elizabeth

先輩

22 Apr 2003

9,839

135

• 26 Aug 2005

• #8

Genecks said:

In one book I had that author had

"No smoking in here"
when the translation should have been
"No tobacco in here."

verb vs. noun. That's a no-no.

Click to expand...

Smoking in the sense of "smoking allowed" 喫煙 is though an honest to goodness noun in Japanese...It's just a completely different language, as gp and everyone has pointed out. Just wait till you get to those sentences without a traditional subject (or three to four of them) or verb.

 

McCrutch67

先輩

20 Jan 2005

103

7

• 26 Aug 2005

• #9

I've never taken a class or had a textbook. I'm learning just from the internet(and of course anime/manga/video games) and I bet it makes things worse for me but to answer the original question I don't know whether things have evolved or not but this site has links to practically all useful pages for japanese learning I've seen anywhere else:

A Select List of Japanese Language Study Sites

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 26 Aug 2005

• #10

I'm just wondering what the original poster thinks of things which are expressed by adjectives in English, but by verbs in Japanese.....

 

Takakoo

Excessively pedantic

23 Aug 2005

221

5

• 27 Aug 2005

• #11

Like ちがう/ちがいます = different, ね?

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 27 Aug 2005

• #12

Or 太っている = fat, and the like.

 

W

willuknight

先輩

16 Jun 2004

38

0

• 30 Aug 2005

• #13

On topic, have people had much experiance with learning games?

There are two RPG games that help you lean Japanese, Knuckles in Chinaland, and Slime Forest, They've both been mentioned before on this site, but hey, can't hurt to repeat them.

I prefer Knuckles in chinaland, because it not only teaches hiragana, katakana and kanji meanings (Slime Forest teaches these also) BUT it ALSO teaches the readings of Kanji and it has a vocabulary mode.

I have to say, with slime forest, its pretty useless to learn one english meaning for a kanji character, but not how to pronounce it or read it in Japanese.

KICL homepage: ChaosTCG情報局 – カオスTCGの収録＆ネット通販最安予約情報まとめ

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 31 Aug 2005

• #14

I really hate attempting to engage the original poster of a thread in a serious manner only to discover that he has very early on decided to stop participating in it.

 

T

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

4 Feb 2005

765

27

• 2 Sep 2005

• #15

mikecash said:

I really hate attempting to engage the original poster of a thread in a serious manner only to discover that he has very early on decided to stop participating in it.

Click to expand...

Don't worry some of us are still here

Yeah it sounds like he's a ****** for direct translation. I am too in a way. I think in a very "structured" manner when it comes to translating to and from Japanese. For example, when I come across the particle "de" I always read it as "by means of" and not "at" like most people do. So, for example, if I see "doko de tabemasu ka" I'll think of it in English in terms of "by means of where will we eat?", and the answer "McDonalds de tabemashou" I'll think as "let's eat by means of McDonalds". Just makes it easier for me to understand the use of the particle. Of course if I'm going to translate it for someone else I'll put it in better English.

However I think complaining about indirect translations (as the OP did) is stupid. Of course you're going to translate "no tabacco in here" as "no smoking in here", otherwise you'll just end up confusing your audience.

I'd also like to know why he thinks things would suddenly change in 6 months. That's not very much time. You have to give things a couple of years to fully evolve and change, even on the internet.

 

T

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

4 Feb 2005

765

27

• 2 Sep 2005

• #16

wow, I can't believe it blocked out "su-cker" in my last post?? Maybe I "accidently" typed something else?? Anyway, I just thought of another example for when I make a direct translation - when talking about locations. E.g. when I see "taburu no ue ni arimasu" I think "it's at the table's top", and "taburu no shita" I think "it's at the table's under".

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

16,758

2,298

• 2 Sep 2005

• #17

I can't see the point of mucking about with translating it for one's self anyway. Think about it: If you can't understand it, you can't translate it anyway. And if you can understand it, why bother? If one has the goal of becoming a translator, I suppose it is dandy practice, but otherwise it's just a hindrance.