Most likely this procedure would end up being self-reported proficiency on the visa form, presumably with most applicants coming in zero or very little. Only when a certain skill level was reported would documentation or airport testing be required.Landing examinations would be impractical to administer. What would they do, take people with work or other visas (like cattle) into a separate room at Narita Airport to give them a test? Ludicrous!
Most likely this procedure would end up being self-reported proficiency on the visa form, presumably with most applicants coming in zero or very little. Only when a certain skill level was reported would documentation or airport testing be required.
No doubt like other work-related requirements either supply backup references (I'm talking about other proficiency test scores, Japanese classes, degrees etc). or a test should be mandatory for anyone claiming at a specified level.If that's what the goverment has in mind (purely speculative at this point), then it wouldn't be very difficult to cheat. Just have a translator or book handy.
As Elizabeth has pointed out, to avoid being a burden on society. Friends and family aren't the only people you deal with in life.So if i have to move to Japan, because of my husbands job, I may HAVE to learn Japanese to stay? I am confused. I don't have to work in Japan, and I certainly will never drive there, so other than speaking to family and friends, why do I need to know Japanese?
He isn't going to be with you 24/7, is he?My husband is my translator.
Doesn't your husband speak English in the USA? How does he feel about you not using any Japanese in Japan?I want to learn mind you, but I don't think forcing it is acceptable, nor do I think it is necessary to live in a country and speak the language.
What are you talking about?if you aren't asking for special care or rules or exceptions because of your lack of language skill,
Yes, agreed, ludicrous, especially if one has a connecting flight to catch.Landing examinations would be impractical to administer. What would they do, take people with work or other visas (like cattle) into a separate room at Narita Airport to give them a test? Ludicrous!
Reporting language ability ? Not when you arrive. On the visa application form.As for reporting when you arrive, shades of the fingerprinting policy! How often will one have to do that, too?!
If you plan to spend your days taking cabs to a park, showing the driver an address written by your husband, and buying groceries on the way home...well it's an incredibly wasted opportunity in my mind, but obviously if no one else is being negatively impacted, still ultimately your life and decision.I can go to the store and buy groceries, get a cab, go to the park for a walk, all without learning the language...
As Elizabeth has pointed out, to avoid being a burden on society.
As for reporting when you arrive, shades of the fingerprinting policy! How often will one have to do that, too?! Or will this be imprinted on one's alien card? (Didja see the new article on that?)
ArmandV,
Here is the link you requested.
alien registration law may be changed. whoo boy!
Oh, and as for that public uproar from Japanese, don't expect it. Gaman.
Believe me, once they realize you can speak normal Japanese with decent fluency, the English stops.Thanks.
On the uproar, if there were to be an uproar, it would've already happened (Japanese complaining of non-Japanese-speaking foreigners). And there won't be one. Why do so many Japanese jump at chances to try out their English?
Not always. I have many conversations with Japanese people, where I use Japanese and they use English.Believe me, once they realize you can speak normal Japanese with decent fluency, the English stops.
You surprise me with this brushing off of Goldiegirl's statements on not needing to learn Japanese, nor wanting to, especially after the lambasting you gave earlier about freeloaders. Why the change of heart?If you plan to spend your days taking cabs to a park, showing the driver an address written by your husband, and buying groceries on the way home...well it's an incredibly wasted opportunity in my mind, but obviously if no one else is being negatively impacted, still ultimately your life and decision.
According to your profile, you have only been in Japan for less than a year. Would you mind if I asked in what capacity? It seems so short to make such a sweeping statement.I get along just fine without Japanese in Japan.
He says that now, but you two live in Wisconsin. He may change his tune seriously if you live in Japan, where he would have to do everything for you, plus hold down a job to support you. It's not easy (and sometimes not even possible) to do certain things when you are working.My husband doesn't care if I ever learn a lick of Japanese, the reason I don't put that much effort into my studies.
Yes, you are! With practically zero Japanese ability, you are going to be forcing Japanese to try to understand you in a foreign language. I've already listed some of the situations.If I am not asking the Japanese to offer me anything because I don't speak their language...like special forms or the like, what's the big deal?
Oh, so you can find stores that have all labels in English? Or in every incidence explain to taxi drivers with English or with handwritten notes? I don't think so. What are you going to do all day long while your husband works -- sit and watch rental videos in English (videos that he has had to pick up for you because you don't know enough Japanese)? I really think you are in for an awakening if you ever come here and live. It may not hit right away, but it will hit.I don't have to work there either. I can go to the store and buy groceries, get a cab, go to the park for a walk, all without learning the language...
Why is it English speaking nations expect people to speak English when in our own countries, but expect people to provide English signs or be able to speak English in other countries not our own?
Why is it English speaking nations expect people to speak English when in our own countries
but expect people to provide English signs or be able to speak English in other countries not our own?
Keep going with your Japanese way and when it is good enough most people will respond back in kind. I usually take along a book or newspaper which helps, too. The stares of amazement are too great for words of idle curiousity...Not always. I have many conversations with Japanese people, where I use Japanese and they use English.
And, another thing may happen, too. Show you have enough command of Japanese, and the locals may tend to clam up around you because they realize you can understand what they are saying. Maybe some of them are talking about you.
For what, buying groceries and taking a cab...?? Heavens no ! A couple phrases maybe but aside from pulling stuff off the shelf that a spouse can eat...Learning a language for that alone would be absurd.You surprise me with this brushing off of Goldiegirl's statements on not needing to learn Japanese, nor wanting to, especially after the lambasting you gave earlier about freeloaders. Why the change of heart?
I'm absolutely not trying to take sides, have zero motive or intent to dodge questions, and no poster has yet introduced the issue of what language is spoken at home.Elizabeth,
You know darned well that life here revolves around more than just picking a can of cut tomatoes off the supermarket shelf. That was a cheap dodge of a reply. Thanks for nothing. You harass English teachers a lot here by telling them they should learn the language for daily survival, then when Goldiegirl comes on and saysher husband will be the breadwinner and that she refuses to learn it, you take her side. Inquiring minds want to know.
getting up to speed on basic level conversation/writing skills
What is more realistic and what I was basing my judgment on was a familiarity with basic (phrase-book level) conversation/writing (maybe 100 or so common kanji) skills.
Making a good faith effort for long term residents to be as inoffensive and well accepted by the community as possible is I'm sure what these preliminary examinations from the government are attempting to correct. I am referring to the ones I think we've all encountered that don't apologize for bothering whoever they are about to barge into, ask in Japanese if the person speaks English and proceed to chat away like it is their God given right to be perfectly understood. Bad enough in tourists. Completely unacceptable for everyone else.
whether it has any practical effect at all is completely irrelevant to the good manners and basic decency that foreigners SHOULD show towards their host country by attempting to actively learn the language.
So, basically, anyone that isn't prepared to fully adjust to a foreign country has no business living there in my opinion.
Just remember to thank and heartily appreciate the natives that are willing to put forth what can be a tremendous effort on their part to do your English for you. Cause no one has ANY obligation whatsoever to rescue a foreigner that isn't even trying.
Buy a damn phrase book, spend half and hour a night on each chapter, plus 5 kanji, practice the sentences on a friend or spouse
Do you really think that what you wrote previously jibes with this statement? I don't. You are adamant about people learning it, and then you brush aside Ggirl with a little wave of your hand. How you can honestly imagine that people canNOT be "negatively impacted" even on such basic levels as these is beyond me.If you plan to spend your days taking cabs to a park, showing the driver an address written by your husband, and buying groceries on the way home...well it's an incredibly wasted opportunity in my mind, but obviously if no one else is being negatively impacted, still ultimately your life and decision.
C'mon. Who actually has such little dialogue? Unrealistic. Ggirl may say she is not planning to work, but who knows if that will change? Even if it doesn't, smell the coffee. Nobody lives in a hermetically sealed jar. Interaction is required, and even at the small levels you and she seem to feel are unimportant for Japanese to be used, I say you are wrong. Regardless of how I feel on that one point, look at the complete turnaround you just made. Perhaps we misunderstood you somehow...?Anyone that plans or needs to be out and about as a foreigner, working and interacting with Japanese people on a daily basis to me is a completely different story than doing two things which require little or no dialogue
Conditions for resident visa status of skilled foreign workers such as engineers may be relaxed if they attain a certain level of proficiency in Japanese, government sources said Monday.
The measures, including shortening the required number of years of work experience required, are being considered both to increase the variety of foreign workers being accepted in Japan and to encourage more foreigners to study Japanese, the sources said.
The relaxed conditions would be applicable to foreigners who want to enter Japan for specialist or technical jobs, they said.
Resident visa status for foreigners staying and working in Japan for a long time is classified under the immigration law by type of job ﾂ― with exceptions such as spouses or descendants of Japanese nationals, who are not restricted in working in Japan.
Engineers, for example, are permitted to enter Japan to work in technical fields if they have graduated from a university in that subject or have work experience of at least 10 years.
The Foreign Ministry and Justice Ministry are considering shortening the number of years of work experience required to about five from 10, according to the sources.
They are also considering using the annual Japanese Language Proficiency Test to gauge applicants' Japanese ability, the sources said.
In fiscal 2006, about 440,000 people in Japan and 46 countries and territories took the test offered by Japan Education Exchanges and Services, which estimates that 2.98 million people study Japanese abroad.
There is concern that relaxing conditions could lead to a decrease in the quality of workers, but if they have proficiency in Japanese they would be able to learn the relevant skills in Japan, the sources said.
Japan decided in 1999 to begin actively accepting skilled foreign workers while keeping its restrictions on unskilled workers.
On Jan. 15, Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura unveiled a plan to consider Japanese proficiency one of the conditions for foreigners to stay in Japan.
OK, you got me there. To be honest I hadn't considered the possibility that fear of the language could produce such an extreme withdrawal syndrome when I wrote that...*Major edit* :=)This one seems to fit Goldiegirl to a T.
I said a few phrases for the cabbie and perhaps kanji at the grocery. To be sure it isn't a well grounded, engaged, open healthy approach to the situation by any standard, but if the desire isn't there and they aren't bothering anyone by not then I don't have a particular interest in harping on Goldiegirl any further.C'mon. Who actually has such little dialogue? Unrealistic. Ggirl may say she is not planning to work, but who knows if that will change? Even if it doesn't, smell the coffee. Nobody lives in a hermetically sealed jar. Interaction is required, and even at the small levels you and she seem to feel are unimportant for Japanese to be used, I say you are wrong. Regardless of how I feel on that one point, look at the complete turnaround you just made. Perhaps we misunderstood you somehow...?
Thank you for that clarification, Elizabeth. However, you also just wrote...So, basically, anyone that isn't prepared to fully adjust to a foreign country has no business living there if that requires trying to speak to natives outside of ones family, particularly clerks and other service workers, in my opinion.
Ok, now the pointer turns to Goldiegirl, who wrote that...I said a few phrases for the cabbie and perhaps kanji at the grocery.