Getting really discouraged

I have been studying Japanese for roughly a year right now and I am getting really discouraged to continue my learning. I barely know anything. Sure I can communicate good asking for food, the bus, where to go, where do you live, general stuff like that. But if I ever want to actually communicate with a native speaker there's no way I would get anywhere am make any friends.

I've tried
Pimsleur method - all 90 lessons. Gave me a great base of the language but there's nothing after 90 lessons, so I can't use this to transition to the next level.
Rosetta Stone - got through level 1 and it gave me another good structure of vocab, but nothing spectacular.
TYS Japanese (2000 version) - Gave me some vocab and useful terms, but it was pretty much 300 pages of a phrasebook with minor explanations

I am also using TYS(1970s version) and Living Language Ultimate Japanese.

I feel really discouraged because when my language partners talk I understand about 20% of what they say. I am terrible at speaking it and do not understand conjugation and such. I understand a lot, past tenses, ect. but there are so many ways that whenever I say something it is wrong. When I watch Japanese movies and such I probably understand about 5-10% of what they say. After a year of Spanish, I was able to watch Telemundo or Univision and understand pretty much any show without subtitles, I have no idea what's going on in Japanese shows/movies.

Please any advice here. I am really upset.

Thank you

I hate to break it to you ,but getting your ear tunned to Japanese tends to take a lot longer than a lot of other languages. Even living in Japan and talking to Japanese full time it can take a long as a year or even longer in some peoples cases. So you being in America and have come as far as you are saying is quite good in my book. Just don't expect to be at a level where you think you might be b/c you have done it in another language.

I guess the next step for you is to get some Japanese TV and watch the programs and re-watch them while you pick the coversations apart. Unfortunately a lot of your future success will be determined by your dedication and ingenuity in finding new ways to stimulate your brain.

Anyway, good luch and I am sure you will do just fine.

FrustratedDave said:

I hate to break it to you ,but getting your ear tunned to Japanese tends to take a lot longer than a lot of other languages. Even living in Japan and talking to Japanese full time it can take a long as a year or even longer in some peoples cases. So you being in America and have come as far as you are saying is quite good in my book. Just don't expect to be at a level where you think you might be b/c you have done it in another language.
I guess the next step for you is to get some Japanese TV and watch the programs and re-watch them while you pick the coversations apart. Unfortunately a lot of your future success will be determined by your dedication and ingenuity in finding new ways to stimulate your brain.
Anyway, good luch and I am sure you will do just fine.

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I totally agree with Dave. I think a lot of people hit that stage where you are now and give up. That sets apart those who move ahead from those who end up with only rudimentary language skills.

Foreign language, especially a language that has no similarity to your native language, is more difficult and requires constant practice and exposure. You're at an impasse that may be long and dreary, but breakthrough comes with great patience and diligence.

If you feel bored with drills and exercises in books, I recommend, like Dave, that you go with Japanese entertainment, such as anime and music. Learning to sing a Japanese song or play-acting a dialogue (even it you don't know what it really means) helps, too, with pronunciation and listening practice.

First of all dude I feel for you I really do, but understand this is a test of your dedication, Japanese is a very quickly spoken language and takes a looong time to get used to as FrustratedDave pointed out, you just got to keep going at it, every day, for as long as you can. Also you need real hardcore text books like Genki, you can't rely on stuff like pimsleur, I used that for about 6 months and didn't learn much at all except how to "sound" more Japanese.

Also as FrustratedDave mentioned, watch Japanese programs, yes you won't understand anything, but if you keep studying you'll soon pick things out and slowly piece things together. And lastly, 1 year is nothing, I've been studying everyday for a year and a half and I've only reached the tip of the iceberg, it's a long journey that never ends with highs and lows, this is a low, are you going to quit just like that and throw away all that time and effort?

Look into the Japan Times Genki books and subsequently, their intermediate textbook. If you're serious about learning the language, you'll need a real pedagogical approach.

That said, even after a year of college classes using awesome textbooks, I wasn't in any position to really express myself to my satisfaction (in fact, I'm still not satisfied with my level of Japanese). It took about 3 years to begin to feel comfortable. Japanese is a fun language to learn, but it does take some serious patience.

You need to set a good order, as with any language it should be something like thise:

1, Basic grammar
2, A few thousand words of vocabulary/basic kanji (learnt properly, if you memorised it once, that doesn't mean you know it)
3, Start reading manga and/or bilingual books.
4, Continue based on your failings.

If you just randomly read stuff textbooks throw at you, or shat programs, of course you will become discouraged. You need to detach yourself from textbooks. They are used to acquire basic grammar, but thats about it. Vocabulary comes from your kanji flash cards, thats where its meant to come from. Oh yes, never make long lists of words, you don't want list learning to kick in.

I think you're focusing too much on the results.

Learning japanese should be fun to you. Don't you love the characters, the discovery of new words and the sense of acomplishment when, after days or weeks of looking in three different dictionaries and checking on the internet, you finally get the full meaning of something you early decided you wanted to understand?

I personally know that I'm still pretty much a newbie on Japanese, but I also know I'm slowly getting better. I'm not a full time learner, pretty much only study while traveling to keep me occupied and entertained, so I've already been poking on Japanese for about 3 or 4 years. And I notice that it helped enormously my memory and recognition capabilities.

To sum it up, I think that you need to get you to love the process of learning the language, make it like a game, a challenge, something that will give you satisfaction just for doing it, otherwise it will be very difficult for you to continue for the long years you've ahead of you.

Just my 2cents anyway.

hideway said:

I think you're focusing too much on the results.

Learning japanese should be fun to you. Don't you love the characters, the discovery of new words and the sense of acomplishment when, after days or weeks of looking in three different dictionaries and checking on the internet, you finally get the full meaning of something you early decided you wanted to understand?

I personally know that I'm still pretty much a newbie on Japanese, but I also know I'm slowly getting better. I'm not a full time learner, pretty much only study while traveling to keep me occupied and entertained, so I've already been poking on Japanese for about 3 or 4 years. And I notice that it helped enormously my memory and recognition capabilities.

To sum it up, I think that you need to get you to love the process of learning the language, make it like a game, a challenge, something that will give you satisfaction just for doing it, otherwise it will be very difficult for you to continue for the long years you've ahead of you.

Just my 2cents anyway.

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If you treat it as a game, it will take considerably longer to learn a language. If entertainment is what you are after, that is fine, but I'm getting the feeling the op has the time and energy to study the language as a subject.

Apart from learning a new language, you also learn three new alphabets. It's not an easy feat to learn that, given that you only spent one year. I have been studying Japanese for only a few months (less than a year) and am pleased enough with what I learn. In my case, I study vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation at one session, and reading/writing in another. I attempted to "master" hiragana, and am doing well. I needed at least one alphabet to communicate, and to learn to read the hiragana that Rosetta Stone spews out.

Don't compare yourself with your language partners and don't rely on movies for your benchmarks. Different people have different paces; I'm sure you can find someone you can talk with that is at the same level as you are. Someone told me that it's not enough to be able to speak the language. You must think and feel, too. I study Japanese at my own pace, and it's generally fulfilling. Admire your own progress. Don't beat yourself up for not learning as fast as others are. No matter how good you become, there will always be someone better than you, so you'll never be happy that way.

Thanks for the advice. It's funny you guys mention "Japan Times Genki books". Which series do you go for? I think the Elementary Japanese Basic - Intermediate won't be too good for me since I am beyond that point.

Which Japan Times Genki books would you recommend me looking into for a textbook approach?

I'm going through Genki right now and even if you feel that you are "beyond" the first Genki you should read through it anyways. It does in my opinion a great job of explaining what matters, how the grammar works, such as with conjugation. This is what you will need to learn in order to be versatile with the language. Going through Pimsleur (I have only gone up to 15 so far) I feel that Pimsleur only helps you to get a feel for the language, while failing miserably at explaining how to actually use the language. It doesn't even bother to mention conjugation or go into detail about the particles.

If you feel beyond beginner materials, try the "cultural episodes" book. Short essays in Japanese about learning Japanese. Excellent reading practice and they get progressively harder as you go through the book.

One kickass book you might want to get is the Japanese Particle Workbook. Helped me a lot.

Hmm I can kind of feel where you are coming from...its tough because when I speak in Japanese I feel like I have to think in reverse because the verb comes at the end. I also learnt for about a year at home before coming to Japan and I feel I've learnt so much in the last three months than I did when I learned Japanese at home.

My first month here was an absolute disaster, I could barely read anything, say anything and comprehend anything even though they did slow down their Japanese for me. I felt my Japanese was useless and absolutely no good at all! I remember going to a restaurant for the first time and I couldnt even comprehend when the waitress asked me what drink I wanted to order! Even at the conbini when the shopkeeper asks me if I want my bento box heated I was mystified. My Japanese dorm mates would speak to me slowly and at drinking parties I just generally sat in the corner because I could not comprehend a thing!

Things are slowly getting better, I'm learning for more words as I go along and Kanji even is not as such a chore as it used to be. Even if I cant comprehend the yomikata I can look at a headline in the paper and know that its about a murder or something to do with the economy or the banks or politics....as an election is probably on the cards next month. I've become more and more accustomed to the use of keigo by the shop keepers. I still have to focus a lot when I speak because the structure of the language is just so different to english. I dont think I will become a natural speaker at all after just a year but I will do my best. I have a few Japanese friends and they are happy to be patient with all my stupid errors, mistakes and strange words.

I remember studying at home and putting so much effort but I felt like I was going nowhere and basically the same place you are. But you know I think I've learned a lot more in the last three months than I did in the last year of Japanese study! The usage of some particles (such as "ni") used to mystify me and now while its not completely clear, its becoming clearer. I can understand now why it is so difficult to pinpoint the usage of particles esspecially if your mother language does not use anything remotely like particles.

Failing that you cannot come to Japan, you will need to keep at it. If your Japanese friends understood 20% of what you were saying then you are doing a LOT better than I did last year. I wish I had Japanese friends I could speak to regularly back home Its really a different experience once you actually get here and find out the words you once learned in the text sound weird and are rarely used...or certain grammar points you learned one way are actually used another way. There were MANY times I would say something and the Japanese person would just burst out laughing at me because i just sounded so odd lol. I guess I will always sound odd, but I will just keep on keeping on.

Ganbatte!

I think my biggest problem is verbs and concepts like - SOO DESU (to seem). The verbs I just find so difficult and it's just so complicated.

So the Genki books are really effective? I guess I can try investing in one of them or so because the others have given me a good base for the language and I guess I will need to improve it now. I am still sticking with it, I am just very annoyed and discouraged.

You'll have plenty of frustration and annoyances doing Japanese, just keep going, don't give up, that may be cheesy but I'm telling you your rewards will come through in time.

SEYZJP said:

I think my biggest problem is verbs and concepts like - SOO DESU (to seem). The verbs I just find so difficult and it's just so complicated.
So the Genki books are really effective? I guess I can try investing in one of them or so because the others have given me a good base for the language and I guess I will need to improve it now. I am still sticking with it, I am just very annoyed and discouraged.

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Pimslear is OK for a quick learning of the vocabulary....building a wide variety of actual phrases and sentences, I'm not so sure. Rosetta Stone is great for randomly identifying various nouns in Japanese but it just isn't going to be possible to speak what you need to know without being more efficient with the grammar. Another program which comes disjointed and also pretty much worthless at the higher levels.

Every aspect of English, vocab, sentence construction, way of thinking, everything, is so much closer to European languages it's only after studying Japanese that you really start to appreciate that. That's what makes Asian languages so fascinating as well as frustrating !

And the confusion around seemingly simple words like -sou desu etc. makes them highly "colloquial" and particularly difficult to study out of context.

Whatever your goals for the language, I have to agree with Dave that the fastest and easiest (not necessarily most fun) way of improving listening comprehension skills and expanding vocab is by listening to / watching TV and Radio News broadcasts in Japanese online. Particularly ones where there are transcripts of the audio or at least subtitles etc.


Ganbatte ne!

SEYZJP said:

I think my biggest problem is verbs and concepts like - SOO DESU (to seem). The verbs I just find so difficult and it's just so complicated.
So the Genki books are really effective? I guess I can try investing in one of them or so because the others have given me a good base for the language and I guess I will need to improve it now. I am still sticking with it, I am just very annoyed and discouraged.

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I dont know anything about pimsleurs or rosetta stone but judging by the comments, it seems that they are good vocab builders...so you just need a good backbone in grammar to put everything together. Things like sou desu, you desu and mitai desu unfortunately all come under "seem" or "looks like" but are used for different situations. "You" in particular has a few functions I think.

Elizabeth said:

Whatever your goals for the language, I have to agree with Dave that the fastest and easiest (not necessarily most fun) way of improving listening comprehension skills and expanding vocab is by listening to / watching TV and Radio News broadcasts in Japanese online. Particularly ones where there are transcripts of the audio or at least subtitles etc.


Ganbatte ne!

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hi Eli, would you be able to give me some links to online japanese radio with script? i can really learn from them.

cheers

warakawa said:

hi Eli, would you be able to give me some links to online japanese radio with script? i can really learn from them.
cheers

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Online Japanese radio with transcript | Japan Forum

SEYZJP said:

I have been studying Japanese for roughly a year right now and I am getting really discouraged to continue my learning. I barely know anything. Sure I can communicate good asking for food, the bus, where to go, where do you live, general stuff like that. But if I ever want to actually communicate with a native speaker there's no way I would get anywhere am make any friends.
I've tried
Pimsleur method - all 90 lessons. Gave me a great base of the language but there's nothing after 90 lessons, so I can't use this to transition to the next level.
Rosetta Stone - got through level 1 and it gave me another good structure of vocab, but nothing spectacular.
TYS Japanese (2000 version) - Gave me some vocab and useful terms, but it was pretty much 300 pages of a phrasebook with minor explanations
I am also using TYS(1970s version) and Living Language Ultimate Japanese.
I feel really discouraged because when my language partners talk I understand about 20% of what they say. I am terrible at speaking it and do not understand conjugation and such. I understand a lot, past tenses, ect. but there are so many ways that whenever I say something it is wrong. When I watch Japanese movies and such I probably understand about 5-10% of what they say. After a year of Spanish, I was able to watch Telemundo or Univision and understand pretty much any show without subtitles, I have no idea what's going on in Japanese shows/movies.
Please any advice here. I am really upset.
Thank you

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Did you ever get IME installed ? I know I asked before...

I am bumping this because again, two weeks later, I feel like the same thing again. However, it's like a roller coaster. Sometimes I watch some kind of show and I hear almost everything good and am happy with my comprehension of the language and am glad that I am moving forward. However, some days(like today) I feel like I know nothing. I put in a movie my friend lent me and it was like I never heard Japanese before. I've been studying hard every day: from Genki, from TYS 1973 Edition, from Living Language, from Linguaphone, from TYS JAP SCRIPT all of these methods, while somewhat helpful are just not giving me what I need. I know the hiragana and katakana, I know a lot of conjugation(polite, plain, past, polite past, TE form, polite past, polite past negative, ect.) and I still know nothing.

I know many of you recommend Genki. I feel it's grammar and vocabulary sections are alright, I worked through about half a book, but the recordings are not good. Maybe they are too amature for me or something I don't know.


I don't know if I need a better method, some kind of alternative method, I don't know. Maybe I just need to stick to one method thoroughly, I don't get it. I watch shows, pick conversations apart, I've studied about ten hours just picking words from shows and finding them in the dictionary.

While I know a lot, I still feel I know nothing.

Dude, no offense but you complain too much. Everyone has this problem when learning a language, you just need to find what works for you and stick to it. Also I believe the best thing for most people is to get a teacher, either join a school or get a tutor. In the end your not being forced to learn this and it is pure hard work which won't let up for a long time, if you can't handle it then maybe you need to think things over. Not trying to be harsh.

The thing is, I really don't want to quit. I just don't know what direction to go in now to actually imrpove my ability. I hit a wall and every where I look I don't see any way to go.

I'm currently at that wall. I choose to start translating a book I've.
I'm learning multiple new words, characters and phrase construction on each page.

I don't know if Japanese is the first language you've learned. Using me as a test-case, I only managed to learn English by putting an huge afford into translation of words and sentences. I remember using the Portuguese-English/English-Portuguese dictionary to find out words like "dress" or "give" so I could input commands or understand what was asked in an old computer adventure game.

Later I started reading small texts on the internet, searching for new words I would come across and by 2001 I started writing my own "large" posts on forums, started chatting in English and although my ability was really bad (I didn't know how awful it was), I got better each year. It's still not perfect, and it probably will never be, but I'm happy I can't write this down after years of learning, trial and error.

Unfortunately Japanese is a lot more difficult to learn because of the huge amount of characters and meanings each character can have. Many expressions and casual talking aren't explained in textbooks (at least not that I'm aware of) and therefor, my opinion is that the only way for you to progress would be a mixture of self-made translations and studying textbooks like Genki.

It is normal to find discouraged during some hard task, especially if it takes several years and if you keep feeling that, no matter how much you studied until now, your knowledge is somehow near to zero in what really matters to you. I'm learning Japanese as an hobby, I'll probably never live in Japan as I've no interest in doing it, so I guess turning the learning into a sort of a game isn't too hard. It was the only way I managed to find so that I could keep learning the language though.

PS: I'm a little drunk, so I'm sorry if any of that didn't make any sense, I'll edit it in the morning if I manage to get online.