Getting hired here and transferred to Japan -- should I consider it?

So, as some of you probably know, I'm a senior at University of Washington going for a B.S. in Computer Science, expected to graduate March 2009.

I've tried getting a job in my field at a company based in Japan by going to this in LA some weeks ago, only to find out I don't have nearly the Japanese ability that these companies expect.

This thread: How to get past the "intermediate" level? should give you an idea where I am at with it.

I would ask other people in the major, but according to surveys of people who graduate from this department, literally over 99% seem to be hired by Microsoft, Google, Amazon or (insert big-name computer-based company here), or want to when they graduate, so it's really hard to get advice. And over 99% of those work in Washington or its nearby states (Idaho, Oregon, Cali). The thing is, I obviously don't want to work in the US. If these companies would send me straight off to their offices in Japan, great. However, I don't know how long it would take, or if these kinds of companies even do that. If it would take many years, I probably would not be up for it. In addition, from the looks of their websites, it looks like you need near-fluent Japanese to work at their Japan offices too. Yet I have heard story after story about people working in Japan with far less Japanese ability than me, in jobs other than teaching English.

So, should I seriously consider this option, or just continue with trying to get an English teaching job?

Hummm?

I would think it would be a big plus to have some work experience for at least a year after college. How about finding a job situation in the US that will allow you to attend formal classes in Japanese at the same time. That way you get experience on your resume, polish your Japanese skills and maybe put some money away for your future trip to Japan.

Uncle Frank

☝

Companies don't offer degrees, so I'm confused right away about why you link to a bilingual career forum to say that. Universities offer degrees.

1) What's wrong with finishing your current degree in March 2009? That's so close.

If these companies would send me straight off to their offices in Japan, great.

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Think seriously. What major company would risk sending a total newbie (fresh college grad) on an overseas assignment? Answer: few. You might consider looking for companies with branches in Japan (there are many), work with one in your homeland for a year (the requirement for an intracompany transfer visa), and hope to get transferred. IMO, that would require some extensive research (normal for job hunting) just to find such a place willing to send someone of your caliber.

However, I don't know how long it would take, or if these kinds of companies even do that. If it would take many years, I probably would not be up for it.

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2) Just what do you offer any company, Japanese or American, that they should consider hiring you...period? Now, ask yourself why they would risk sending you overseas?

There are companies here (foreign and Japanese) that hire people in your field. Some want only people fairly fluent in Japanese, yes. Some hire a lot of East Indians (not so fluent). You have to do the leg work. I suggest www.daijob.com/en but look at the articles by Terrie Lloyd there, read all the job ads (yes, most will ask for highly fluent people), and go the extra mile to dig up companies that hire foreigners.

3) Please consider that foreigners here must usually display talents and experience that a local Japanese do not have. Otherwise, why hire the foreigner? Really, seriously, honestly think of that! Want to work in Japan and not the U.S.? May I ask why? Do you know anything of the culture here (social and business)? You may be surprised at what you find.

Also, if you get a teaching job here, your foot is in the door, opening up opportunities to look for other work. But you will need a degree to get that teaching job. Be patient, whatever you do. You seem to be in an awful rush.

Glenski said:

Companies don't offer degrees, so I'm confused right away about why you link to a bilingual career forum to say that. Universities offer degrees.

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Sorry, I meant "job". Unfortunately, Firefox can only catch errors in spelling, not concept.

(anything related to thinking I'm in a rush)

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How the hell can you conclude that I'm in a hurry without knowing when I started? Do you think I started in the department yesterday? Last month? Last year? I've been working on this degree since 2005. I'm taking a fairly normal amount of time on a degree of this level.

2) Just what do you offer any company, Japanese or American, that they should consider hiring you...period? Now, ask yourself why they would risk sending you overseas?

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I have skills in many facets of Computer Science (networks, database systems, artificial intelligence, large-scale languages) and have samples of some programs I've written. Me (and a partner) have written a file transfer program for the Nokia N800 internet tablet, as well as a strong Othello-playing AI (computer opponent) that was runner-up in an Othello AI tournament. Microsoft at least should consider hiring because they're itching for people from the UW CS department. They have a dearth of people from my field.

See my typo (more like brain fart) where I wrote "degree" instead of "job" originally? That's probably something that artificial intelligence could hope to catch. I might be able to write a program that fixes that for me, not just typos. If you gave it a sentence like "I'm going to walk to Japan", it might respond with something like "I hope you can walk on water". Believe it or not, it's exceedingly complicated to do things like this. Computers are stupid. Not an insult, but essentially they are doing a lot of stupid things really fast to come up with stuff like this.

If Microsoft is willing to risk a $25,000 signing bonus on people right out of college, 1000 shares of their stock, and a salary of $60-70k, I think they'd be willing to risk $1,000 or so to send someone overseas. I'd link you to the surveys showing where people end up and what they make, but for some reason you have to be in the department to access it.

3) Please consider that foreigners here must usually display talents and experience that a local Japanese do not have. Otherwise, why hire the foreigner? Really, seriously, honestly think of that! Want to work in Japan and not the U.S.? May I ask why? Do you know anything of the culture here (social and business)? You may be surprised at what you find.

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Honestly, if I did not have a genuine interest in working in Japan, do you think I would be asking about working there? Do you really think I wouldn't research this kind of information first? I've also wanted to improve my Japanese ability, and recently, people have been suggesting me to move to Japan to improve my Japanese ability, like it's that easy. I feel as if the only way for me to truly improve at this point is hands-on experience. Please read this thread.

How to get past the "intermediate" level?

The closest thing I'd have to a skill no Japanese person has is being fluent in English. I'd be able to write comments on code in both languages. Comments basically describe in a natural language what the code does, so that other people could easily work the same code, or if you wrote the code yourself, you could jog your memory on what it does if you look at the same code years later. People who speak either language would be able to understand what it does.

As for why I want to live there, I'll probably be writing a paper on that soon. I've put it off long enough, and AEON wants one.

I would think it would be a big plus to have some work experience for at least a year after college. How about finding a job situation in the US that will allow you to attend formal classes in Japanese at the same time. That way you get experience on your resume, polish your Japanese skills and maybe put some money away for your future trip to Japan.

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I have plenty saved (i.e. tens of thousands of USD). And as I said in the last paragraph, I feel hands-on experience is the only way I can really advance at this point.

I feel like I'm digging myself in a hole by posting this post, but what the hell.

All this 'you must be able to offer something that no Japanese person can' is a red herring, especially in IT. If a Japanese-based company wants you, for whatever reason, they'll swing your visa no problem.

So... just search for companies who are advertising jobs based in Japan and apply for them!

If you want to come to Japan soon, then you've no choice but to remove the Japanese language ability aspect from the equation completely and only apply for companies that operate in English. They do exist, I'm typing this from my desk in just such a company.

And I'd say there's little point in applying for a job in the USA with a view to getting a Japanese posting. Just apply directly to a company in Japan.

Your intermediate Japanese ability will be of little use, except perhaps to display an interest in Japan which will ingratiate yourself to any Japanese interviewer you may encounter. If you get an interview, learn some appropriate keigo!

Happy hunting!

Ok, have read that other thread. Let me summarize.

You are about to graduate in spring, 2009.
You have somewhat intermediate (by your own estimation, no test scores cited) Japanese language ability.
You want to get a job in Japan, eventually in IT, but you are unwilling to work a year or 2 in Seattle to become qualified (in Microsoft's eyes) to do so.

You rightfully are concerned about Japanese ability atrophing in the States.
Answer: never stop studying. Make J friends there. Use Skype.

You sounded impatient because of the following remark:
"If these companies would send me straight off to their offices in Japan, great."
Impatient or naive.

If Microsoft is willing to risk a $25,000 signing bonus on people right out of college, 1000 shares of their stock, and a salary of $60-70k, I think they'd be willing to risk $1,000 or so to send someone overseas.

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This is naive. Plane fare is only one of many costs. Some costs are hidden and uncountable in terms of money. Let's say, for example, the employee they trust screws up or is a serious female predator, or whatever. Bye bye reputation for the company to some extent.

I have skills in many facets of Computer Science

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You have not even graduated yet and have held only PT office work. Not a stellar track record of work experience that an employer would bank on to risk sending you overseas, IMO. JUST my opinion, ok? It's not my field. Have you at least looked at the site I gave you and asked Terrie Lloyd any questions?

Honestly, if I did not have a genuine interest in working in Japan, do you think I would be asking about working there?

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My response was not meant to get your dander up. I have been posting on these forums for over 10 years and have seen plenty of people say they "want to come" to Japan, but just how serious they are is not clear from just an initial post. Sorry if you took offense. Would you care to explain what the fascination is, and why you don't want to remain working in the U.S.? Please help us to understand your feelings.

Your other post was mostly about learning Japanese. If you really want to learn it, you will find Japanese people to speak with, learn to read books and newspapers, etc., and watch tons of movies and news. You can do some of that from home, but the advice to come here is also good. Total immersion is obviously the better way. Book learning is not the way we speak or write, I hope you realize, so direct human contact (or that through the media) is the way you really learn. If you can't or aren't able to come, so be it, but I really think for someone who hasn't even graduated to think he can leap here in a short time, you are pushing the envelope a little too much. Come to Japan, and you will learn two major things:
patience
image/reputation
Don't learn those, and you will be risking failure here in almost everything you do, or you will simply go mad with frustration.

Good luck.

You want to get a job in Japan, eventually in IT, but you are unwilling to work a year or 2 in Seattle to become qualified (in Microsoft's eyes) to do so.

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A year or two? From what I've heard, it would be more like 5 or 10.

Total immersion is obviously the better way. Book learning is not the way we speak or write, I hope you realize, so direct human contact (or that through the media) is the way you really learn. If you can't or aren't able to come, so be it, but I really think for someone who hasn't even graduated to think he can leap here in a short time, you are pushing the envelope a little too much. Come to Japan, and you will learn two major things:

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Honestly, your posts really come off as really narcissistic to me. Most likely true in some regards, but narcissistic. You only seem to tell people what they can't do, and why they are going to fail, and even make impossible, sometimes even unrealistic arguments. "Talents that a local Japanese does not have"? So I have to invent my own major, to which I'm the only member?

I don't feel like telling you why I want to work in Japan. Why? All you're going to do is pick apart absolutely everything and insult me over it.

I didn't think there were people out there more pessimistic than me, but I think I've found one.

Answer to your question, its all up to you.

Considering that we are talking about your future here. It's probably best you answer the question yourself. I don't know you in RL. I don't know whats Japan mean to you. I don't know whats your circumstance are. (nor do i care to be honest)

I've also wanted to improve my Japanese ability, and recently, people have been suggesting me to move to Japan to improve my Japanese ability, like it's that easy.

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It is actually. Most people just either don't know how(in other words, too lazy to find out how on their own), or just too afraid to take the leap, or too preoccupied with unrealistic or predetermined choices when there are other ways.

An advice, (from your other thread, 3 choices post thinggy.
There are no such thing as safe or unsafe choice. I took the most unsafe choice and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna fail and end up back home with ten of thousands of loans that need to be pay and end up in a low paying IT job. I took it because its what I wanted. And It end up its the best choice of all out of the other safe choices that I've thought up but would screw up or delay my dream. Got the job that I always wanted, and still in Japan. (things might go the other way, but who knows, unless you can see the future right?).
Bad advice? maybe.

In the end, you should make up your own mind.

tada said:

A year or two? From what I've heard, it would be more like 5 or 10.

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Depends on what sort of job you expect, I guess.

Honestly, your posts really come off as really narcissistic to me. Most likely true in some regards, but narcissistic.

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Hardly. Not even sure where this thought came from.

You only seem to tell people what they can't do, and why they are going to fail, and even make impossible, sometimes even unrealistic arguments.

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I tell you what is possible and not possible and what barriers you will face. Those all comprise reality. If you can't handle it, that's tough. You won't get a fairer description of life here.

As for unrealistic... how would you even know? You have not lived here.
As for only telling you what you can't do, reread my posts. Lots of helpful info there even for the ungrateful.

"Talents that a local Japanese does not have"? So I have to invent my own major, to which I'm the only member?

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See what I mean? Get down to reality. If the company is comparing a foreigner with weak Japanese skills and practically zero experience to a local Japanese with the same degree, who do you think they will consider?
Better language skills.
No need to adjust to living in Japan. Culture shock is a biggie.
No problems adjusting to the Japanese work life.

These are what I meant. Get it now?

I don't feel like telling you why I want to work in Japan. Why? All you're going to do is pick apart absolutely everything and insult me over it.

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Be secretive then. I can't help you if you don't explain a few simple things.

Considering that we are talking about your future here. It's probably best you answer the question yourself. I don't know you in RL. I don't know whats Japan mean to you. I don't know whats your circumstance are. (nor do i care to be honest)

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I think I'll follow this. Probably the best advice I have gotten on the internet so far. I should take advice I hear from people I've never met in real life with a grain of salt. No one here is going to care enough about anyone else to learn everything about another person. It's the internet. Should only be a supplement of communication at best in my opinion. I'm going with teaching English, and if Google can place me in their Tokyo office, I'll take that instead.

On a final note, native Japanese most likely can't speak fluent English, and communicate with people internationally. You need that in these times.

Kind of hard to learn anything if you don't answer simple questions. I thought the bulk of my posting here showed I cared. Shrug. Carry on.

Yes, most Japanese have a hard time communicating in English, and that's a skill that's desperately needed. So, how did you think you would communicate in the office?

Well, even if you don't decide to help me, this will help me in brainstorming my AEON essay.

Glenski said:

Kind of hard to learn anything if you don't answer simple questions. I thought the bulk of my posting here showed I cared. Shrug. Carry on.

Yes, most Japanese have a hard time communicating in English, and that's a skill that's desperately needed. So, how did you think you would communicate in the office?

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I can usually communicate what I want to say, but not in real-time. I get hung up on one word and they assume I can't speak Japanese at all, regardless of how complicated the words and structures I used before it were.

And for the hell of it, I'll make some comparisons on some things.
Transport
Japan: Public transport is very intuitive, reliable, and useful to me. I can pretty much BS my way from anywhere to anywhere else without researching my route first. In a lot of places, it is so good that you don't even need a car. Trains come every few minutes at a lot of places. People start stomping their feet if the bus comes even one minute late.
Seattle: Buses come only about every half an hour, every hour at non-peak times. It's very common for buses to be upwards of 15 minutes late, since traffic affects them too. If there is an accident, it affects the bus too. Not to mention, it is confusing as hell to me. I have to look up routes, where to transfer, which number bus to transfer to unless it's a route I have taken countless times. I have to take a car, which is unreliable and expensive. Oil prices have receded for now, but I doubt they are going to stay that way. I have to leave really early if I want to get somewhere on time because I don't know whether it will take 35 minutes or an hour and a half if there's an accident somewhere.

Weather
Japan: Proud of their four seasons, and I am proud of their four seasons too. Winter doesn't get too cold except far up north. Summer is probably the only season I'd hate because it gets super hot sometimes, but there are vending machines on every block. Grab an o-i ocha and move on.
Seattle: Dear god, it is horrible here. We have two seasons: Rain and construction. During Rain, which lasts from about October-May, possibly way longer it is really cloudy almost every day, and it rains almost every day too. You're more than likely to forget the name of that shining yellow sphere that pokes out occasionally. The endless gray days get really draining, and lack of vitamin D has certain health implications. and in December the days are only about 8 hours long. Construction has more Spring-like than Summer-like temperatures, and if you blink you'll miss it.

Technology
Japan has some ideas that are just really cool, really useful, or both. For instance, their cell phones are far more advanced than ours are. Do we have those black and white pictures that you can simply snap a picture of on your cell phone and do who knows what with next? Can we watch TV on our cell phones? Doubt it; the internet in the US goes at a crawl compared to how fast it goes in Japan. Not to mention, the concept of net neutrality is signed into law over there. The opposite would be a tiered internet. Let's say you wanted to access Youtube. That'll cost you an extra $5 above the normal service in a tiered internet. The US is debating which will happen.

Some ideas are just genius, like ticket machines in front of soba/udon shops. For the consumer, it saves time, eliminates language barriers by showing pictures, and can make change probably faster than any cashier. For the business, I can see it preventing crime (if any; that's another point entirely) and making it very easy to audit. Even the toilets are high-tech.

I can keep going if you want.

tada said:

Well, even if you don't decide to help me, this will help me in brainstorming my AEON essay.

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You are the most ungrateful person I've seen in a long time. Show me where I have not helped you!

I can usually communicate what I want to say, but not in real-time.

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Well, then you are not fluent enough. You already realized that, but how do you think you will get a job where Japanese is required? This is something I've already told you that you can fix in a relatively short time if you put your mind to it. Have you?

And for the hell of it, I'll make some comparisons on some things.

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I don't know why.

Transport

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I lived in Seattle for 7 years. You are skewing things far out of proportion. "Unreliable" car? Get a better one. I lived on the far north end (Lynnwood) and just outside the city center (Magnolia). Barely had problems driving in. They have an HOV lane, y'know. But I suppose you don't carpool...

As for confusing bus schedules, you have a hard time reading them in English?

Accidents don't happen so often that you have to worry about how long it will take to get anywhere, either. Exaggeration.

Weather
We have two seasons: Rain and construction.

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No, you have winter rain, and the rest of the climate. You b!tch about roads too much. Haven't you enjoyed the pleasant summers at all?

Technology

Japan has some ideas that are just really cool, really useful, or both.

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Cell phone technology may be cool, but just how many functions are that useful? Do you have any idea what it's like to see the drones here who constantly thumb their cell phones every minute of the day and lose touch with society? Major problem here, in case you didn't know.

Ticket machines for food turn you on? Ok. I just don't see them as a reason to get all that excited. Pictures on them get faded by the sun, and they are not all that clear to distinguish when they aren't faded.

High tech toilets get you all a'quiver? Ok. I just use them for 2 bodily functions and keep the Star Trek image out of my head.

I can keep going if you want.

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Actually, I wish you would. Your posts so far are showing nothing more than a superficial interest/knowledge of Japan. Wanting to come here and work will put you in a very different atmosphere. Just so you know.

By the way, you might want to read this thread just to see what it is like for someone to job hunt here with real IT skills and poor Japanese langauge.
GaijinPot

Tada

I'm only going by your profile that says you've spent less than one month in Japan. If you do choose to go the Eikaiwa route, there is a plus side. You can get easily hired from abroad and it will give you some time to get over any culture shock, get settled and practice your Japanese.

I'm not sure about about getting hired by one of the companies you mentioned in America and then transferring to Japan because I've never done that myself, so I'm sorry I cannot coment on that.

However, you can also just come to Japan on a tourist visa and look for a job within that three month period. If you go this route though, you have to find somewhere to live, get a phone, and get your resume out pretty quickly. The worst that can happen really is that you go back to America after those three months and then try again later.

My husband used to handle hiring at the place he worked and he gave me this advice. A lot of companies who hire people out of college don't expect you to have much experience. Some places don't want to see that you've been at another company for ~just a year and then quit~ because that means you may quit them after a short time. They just want someone young, pliable and willing to do their best. Of course this doesn't apply in all cases--Uncle Frank and Glenski's have given some excellent advice, and said to get a some experience first and then change jobs and what I'm saying contradicts this >_<;;; I'm just stating my own experience, not saying you two are wrong in any way!!

Anyhow, good luck in whatever path you choose.

You ask for advice and then act like a naive, ungrateful brat when people give you advice you don't want to hear. When you grow up you'll realize the best advice people give you is the stuff you don't want to hear.

You don't need to defend why you want to come here. 理由をいちいち説明する必要なんてない。 But realize that once that vague feeling of "Japan is where I should be" wears off, your life in Japan will be the same one it is in the U.S. Japan will not build the life you want for you, and the U.S. will not stop you from building it. My first move overseas was an escape trip and I escaped nothing...

これがこの掲示板で最終回就活の援助を求める。

皆さん、ありがとうございます。

Anyway, I wish you good luck in your future !
May your nihon dreams will come true !

they say: ﾅ津頁椎?窶堙俄?愿ｼ窶堙ｧ窶堋ｸ窶堙ｱ窶堙芝津頁ｽq窶堙ｰ窶慊ｾ窶堋ｸﾂ。