strongvoicesforward
Sempai
- 25 Dec 2005
- 242
- 7
Revenant said:Hilarity doesn't mean one's opinion is correct.... that includes Carlin.
Of course his routines don't mention all aspects of religion, just those that he can make fun of, and those aspects that he can make fun of don't include all within said religion.
Didn't say you did.strongvoicesforward said:Never said it was correct, did I?
No, I'm saying if they aren't correct, they aren't terribly useful.strongvoicesforward said:Known quotes that are even witty or take a jab at the purported truth of something are also used in rhetoric and debate. Are you denying that?
Your humorous attempt at sarcasm seemed to have been lost on many, John
I am glad you like the suggestion. Your comments, too (though not sure if you were being serious or sarcastic), are interesting. I will address some of them.
Hachiro said:svf all I am going to do in reply to you is say that you are rather picky in what you choose to reply to.
I nearly wrote a damn essay on the subject and you replied to one little point.
I will say this about you, when it is a subject that you are familiar or feeling stongly about you generally reply in a knowledgeable manner.
Yet in this case you obfusacate the issue. You are on weak ground here, I think you should just cut your loses and quit.
Hachiro said:It was lost on you as well as evidenced by you reply to his post #63 and your reply #64
It sure was, and I admitted it clearly (though I did leave room for the possibility that he was being sarcastic when I first replied to him).
So what? What`s your point?
guru-guru pei!
Hiding is banning, that is black and white. Your logic in your reply to me about that is flawed. You are banning a person, not matter what you want to call it, from participating fully in the function of a topic here.
I`m no guru. [Yes, I know you are being sarcastic.]
I explained a different analogy to it. I preferr mine. You prefer yours. Admin can choose which they like better. It doesn`t bother me in the least if they choose yours over mine.
Besides, my suggestion is a core idea -- it could morph into a better one. Perhaps admin, after noticing someone is too sensitive to a particular topic or person, could go into their control panels and lock in a hide on a particular person. This would be especially helpful for those who are the target of forum stalkers. I had my strange little fat stalking cat following me around the whole place being sensitive about everything and posting on my posts and threads pulling them off topic and targeting me, rather than the message of the posts. The "ignore" function doesn`t prevent that. A hide function would or could.
If a "hide" function were activated against a person by admin decision, I think it should only come from admin and not moderators. I think there would have to be some kind of public guidelines that clearly show the steps leading up to it. And, it should be done and utilized in rare occassions -- and like I said before, there could be a time limit on it.
Use the ignore function, that's what its there for,
The ignore function does not stop people who are overly sensitive from freaking out and becoming forum stalkers. it is good for the person mature enough to not want to see things that bother them, but it does nothing for the person who is the target of stalking.
YOu might say, "well, if someone is stalking you, then you should have admin talk to them," -- and that has been done. The only thing is, some will wait a week or month after they have been "ordered" to not post on or to someone, and then start testing the waters, posting here and there to see how far they can get away with "targeting" a certain persona again. And, if they have a sympathetic mod or two, that can be encouraged when a mod lets a friendship get in the way of a previous order laid down. We have seen that already. A "hide" would effectively take that out of the equation in extreme cases.
...plus YOU have to learn to post nicely.
lol. I do. But, are you being subjective in that suggestion? I don`t use vulgar language or threaten people. My ideas and constructs in debate do however frustrate people, though. I am not responsible for their frustration as a result of their inability to overcome obsticles presented to them in debate. Why should I make it easy for them?
Quit trying to make this into an issue about the sensitivities of others, ...
I don`t have to try -- it clearly is in many cases.
Traditionally, in society, non-religionists, vegetarians, and animal rightists have all been positions held by the minority, and those positions have often been viewed as suspicious. They attract a lot of attention from the majority that sees them as threatening their traditional ways. The forum here is a microcosm of the world, and we see those people upset with me because I fall into each one of those minority groups -- meaning I will bother a larger percentage of people.
when this is about you and people complaining or arguing about your thoughts and opinions, nothing else.
See above paragraph.
You thought you had a captive audience in support of you, fine, but remember not everyone feels the same as you do.
A few support me. But the majority do not because my views are the minority in society on almost every point that I described above. I am quite aware not everyone feels the same as I do. At times, it seems like I have had to fight hard for the right to put forth my ideas and opinions here. I have obeyed the rules of the forum in 99% (I may have brushed against them several times) of all my postings and threads and admin, not being captured by a clique has that that is true -- whether they agree with my views or not is irrelevant -- what is relevant is that they are non-biased and do not take prejudicial action against me based on any personal views. I do have to say they have shown great leadership in withstanding the calls for action against me.
Leadership is about leading and not falling prey to the lynch mob mentality -- even if the lynch mob has your deputies in it. To hold off the mob is admirable and the just leader executes fairness and justice justly -- not based on friendship or connections. Again, the forum is a microcosm of the world and we see this leadership/lynch mob mentality that plays out in the world being played out right here.
Don't like hearing it? Use the ignore function, I am not going to be so childish as to "hide" you from my commentary about you, even though I think that these comments may hurt your feelings and sensitivities.
lol. You would have no need to "hide" me from you, Hachiro -- because I have never stalked you because you upset me.
Hachiro said:With all due respect to all the comments so far regarding the idea of having a "hide" feature I would like to add my comments to this.
Firstly I think that the majority of people posting here are adults, and to that should be able to control their thoughts feelings and emotions regarding what they write on an open message board such as this.
Moderators are on hand to "moderate" the discussions and imho are doing an admirable job.
I'm sorry but even with all the comments made so far about this proposal I for one think that it is in effect rather childish. "I don't like that he or she can read what I am writing even though I have them on ignore" "If you can't play my way I am going to take my toys home" kind of response.
If a poster feels that strongly about having one person or another not reading their posts then they should consider the way they are posting their material that provokes such a response.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" (or something like that) comes to mind.
If one is so overly sensitive to the point that they don't want others reading and responding to their posts, then they should consider if a forum like this is the place for them to be discussing diversive or argumentative issues.
One of the purposes of an open forum such as this is to allow people, within reason, to state their feelings, opinions, thoughts and beliefs about various topics. You defeat the purpose of a board such as this and end up creating cliques of people that view like issues in the same way.
You become or create a "cult" of like-minded people and end up being narrow minded and NOT open to others opinions, like them or not.
I will say this, if and when this proposed feature becomes a "fact", (which I sincerely hope doesnt) it will be the LAST time I EVER post here. I may be a "newbie" to many and thereby my comments will be dismissed out of hand yet I feel that to in effect add a "censorship" type of function to be placed into effect defeats the freedom that one has to post or not post here.
Hachiro said:While svf has strong views, some that I may agree with and others that I don't I find fault with his logic in this proposal about a hide function.
This is a form of censorship wouldn't you agree?
By advocating a move such as this you would control your audience, no matter how altruistic the motives may be. How does one make a decision on whether or not a person is going to be offended?
If you know that "someone" is going to be offended by your post(s) why make the post in the first place?
You are repeating yourself here about being courteous. If that is the case then you as the poster have the responsibility to write your posts in such a manner as not to offend the reader.
You take away a readers opportunity to read what you have written and you also will run the risk of comments being placed in response to your threads that others are hidden from and then having the hidden person respond to those comments. Thereby again running the risks of having a thread shot to heck and pulled off topic in a desire to "protect" a person from being offended from your posts. You would also offend more people when you place them on "hide" because then they would also only be able to participate in a portion of a thread, it would end up being similar to only hearing a part of a conversation and not in its entirety.
Then to take that to the next logical step, to prevent miscommunication, misunderstanding and topics being pulled off thread you would have to limit access to entire threads. Because you dont want people participating in only half of a conversation now would you? The next logical conclusion would be to have to make the obvious request that people be banned or hidden from topics or threads that YOU deemed inapropriate out of concerns for their feelings. Do you follow where this is going to?
Whether it be one person or 100 to in effect "ban" a person from a topic for whatever reason is censoring that persons rights as a member here.
From this proposal you end up making this board into a back scratching club where members would end up fighting for "rep" points to hide people that they didn't like.
I shut off my reputation points because of the fact that I am not posting here for my ego, nor to ask for people to add to my reputation. I am who I am, whether or not you agree with me is your choice, just as I have the choice to agree with you or not.
SVF you have strong opinions on topics that bring out a variety of opinions from various members. In this case I have a strong opinion against this proposal and hope that it never takes effect. In any way shape or form. Like I wrote in my previous post if it does take effect that will be the last day that I post here ever.
Mikawa Ossan said:Don't ignore the ignore list.
It's good advice.
There's a certain member that I have on my ignore list. For some reason the way he posts things just rub me the wrong way. After putting this member on ignore, I certainly feel better and enjoy Jref more!
After all, I'm not here to feel bad. This is a community, and we should strive to at the very least coexist. Sometimes the ignore list is the best option to that end.
Mikawa Ossan said:1. What makes you think that I was referring to you? I wasn't.
2. The reason that person is on my ignore list has nothing to do with anything you put in your last post.
SVF, you shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly.
True, but this forum is for entertainment purposes, is it not? Entertainment is not exactly real life, would you say?RockLee said:It's not that in real life you can just put people in your own "ignore list" , is it :?
Mikawa Ossan said:...but I don't personally see it as a place to try to change other people's minds about issues.
Mikawa Ossan said:True, but this forum is for entertainment purposes, is it not? Entertainment is not exactly real life, would you say?
Oh yes, obviously so!strongvoicesforward said:We will agree to disagree on this.
Of course I agree with you. But I don't think that my way of thinking is inherently more "correct" than most other people's. Therefore I do not actively try to bring others to my way of thinking. If someone does start to think about something because of something I posted, of course I am happy about it and welcome their thoughts. But I don't mind particularly if they don't have second thoughts about my posts.I don`t think we can change a person`s mind overnight here on this forum. But, over time. It is possible. Seeds of change can be planted, and if some are like me, even after signing off of JREF and turning off the computer, you may still be thinking about some of the points made by someone.
It happens to me all the time.
Well, to make a L-O-N-G response rather short, I guess we can disagree on this, too. But that's mostly because I don't see social change to be nearly so compelling as you seem to. But that's fine with me.Some may view it as "entertainment" but I think that is a little insulting to JREF creators if that is the only box you are going to allow them to exist in. I think any conduit to communication can be a cog in social change.
Wouldn`t you agree to that? I think that is a rather fair statement.
Hachiro said:From this proposal you end up making this board into a back scratching club where members would end up fighting for "rep" points to hide people that they didn't like. I shut off my reputation points because of the fact that I am not posting here for my ego, nor to ask for people to add to my reputation. I am who I am, whether or not you agree with me is your choice, just as I have the choice to agree with you or not.
Maciamo, I know you are acting well within your right as admin, but it's posts like this that erode trust in the management.Maciamo said:Funny that as I am reading this now you have your reputation turned on, 2 people left you reputation for this very posts, and after doubel-checking you seem to have engaged in quite a bit of backscratching for reputation with Mikecash, CC1, Frank D. Wight and Sabro yourself !
Maciamo said:Funny that as I am reading this now you have your reputation turned on, 2 people left you reputation for this very posts, and after doubel-checking you seem to have engaged in quite a bit of backscratching for reputation with Mikecash, CC1, Frank D. Wight and Sabro yourself !
Can it literally be lowered any further ? The thing with reputations points which is fairly minor compared to the huge variety of other indiscretions has been going on at least a year, probably much longer...Mikawa Ossan said:Maciamo, I know you are acting well within your right as admin, but it's posts like this that erode trust in the management.