Different ways to use と

The7thSamurai · 7 Feb 2007

Hey everyone,

Been listening to JapanesePod101.com and have heard と being used in what I think is two different ways.

まずはホテルに行かないと = First I have to go to the hotel.
フロントに言って変えてもらうと = I'm going to call the front desk and get them to change it (my room).

I think I've heard somewhere that you can use しないといけない to mean "I have to". Would I be right? And the example sentence there is the person just cutting off the いけない part?

And the second sentence is the quoting と right? Or would it be っと？

Hmm...

Elizabeth · 7 Feb 2007

Is there anything after this as a good context ? If not, he's probably talking about what he's going to do when/after going to the hotel and getting the room changed.

PaulTB · 7 Feb 2007

Elizabeth said:
Is there anything after this as a good context ? If not, he's probably talking about what he's going to do when/after going to the hotel and getting the room changed.

Which one are you talking about?

Bucko is 100% correct about the first one.

まずはホテルに行かないと

いけない (or similar) is implied there. You often hear this abbreviation when people are half-talking to themselves.

Elizabeth · 7 Feb 2007

PaulTB said:
Which one are you talking about?
Bucko is 100% correct about the first one.
窶堙懌?堋ｸ窶堙哉築ﾆ弾ﾆ停?ｹ窶堙可行窶堋ｩ窶堙遺?堋｢窶堙
窶堋｢窶堋ｯ窶堙遺?堋｢ (or similar) is implied there. You often hear this abbreviation when people are half-talking to themselves.Bucko is 100% correct about the first one.

まずはホテルに行かないと

いけない (or similar) is implied there. You often hear this abbreviation when people are half-talking to themselves.

Yes, I first have to back to the hotel. When they change the room....(something else).

It's only one possible interpretation, though, there may be equally valid other readings.

PaulTB · 7 Feb 2007

Elizabeth said:
It's only one possible interpretation, though, there may be equally valid other readings.

When it's the construction

～neg-Vと。(end of sentence)

the likelihood of alternative interpretations is vanishingly small.

There are twelve such example sentences in WWWJDIC.

あのプロジェクトについて彼を本気にさせないと。
We have got to get him to take that project seriously.

うちの電話は故障だ。修繕してもらわないと。
Our telephone is out of order so I shall have it repaired.

どういっても七時までにいかないと。
However we go, we must get there by seven.

もう行かないと。
Got to go now.

恐縮だが、残業してもらわないと。
I'm afraid that you have to work overtime.

金をためるには出費を切りつめないと。
We must cut our expenses to save money.

今頃言うなんて遅いよ。事が起こった時に言わないと。
Don't come to me now with that. You should have said something when it originally happened.

昨晩は遅くまでがんばって働いたから、もし可能なら、お昼をとった後少し眠らないと。
I worked hard till late last night, so I'll have to catch some z's after lunch if it's possible.

生卵はだめ。調理しないと。
I can't eat a raw egg; it must be cooked.

電池を入れ替えないと。
It needs new batteries.

髪を整えないと。
I've got to fix my hair.

彼にお金を返すのを忘れないようにしないと。
I've got to remember to return this money to him.

Incidentally the second example is also a form often used when people talk to themselves.

Elizabeth · 7 Feb 2007

ﾆ竹ﾂーﾆ停?ｹ said:
When it's the construction
～neg-Vと。(end of sentence)
the likelihood of alternative interpretations is vanishingly small.
There are twelve such example sentences in WWWJDIC.
あのプロジェクトについて彼を本気にさせないと。
We have got to get him to take that project seriously.
うちの電話は故障だ。修繕してもらわないと。
Our telephone is out of order so I shall have it repaired.
どういっても七時までにいかないと。
However we go, we must get there by seven.
もう行かないと。
Got to go now.
恐縮だが、残業してもらわないと。
I'm afraid that you have to work overtime.
金をためるには出費を切りつめないと。
We must cut our expenses to save money.
今頃言うなんて遅いよ。事が起こった時に言わないと。
Don't come to me now with that. You should have said something when it originally happened.
昨晩は遅くまでがんばって働いたから、もし可能なら、お昼をとった後少し眠らないと。
I worked hard till late last night, so I'll have to catch some z's after lunch if it's possible.
生卵はだめ。調理しないと。
I can't eat a raw egg; it must be cooked.
電池を入れ替えないと。
It needs new batteries.
髪を整えないと。
I've got to fix my hair.
彼にお金を返すのを忘れないようにしないと。
I've got to remember to return this money to him.
Incidentally the second example is also a form often used when people talk to themselves.

Yeah, I know for the first one -- I was wondering more about after morau. Sorry for the brevity. I'm at work and this is more than I should be working in....

PaulTB · 7 Feb 2007

Elizabeth said:
Yeah, I know for the first one -- I was wondering more about after morau. Sorry for the brevity. I'm at work and this is more than I should be working in....

フロントに言って変えてもらうと = I'm going to call the front desk and get them to change it (my room).

The second form is often used as a sort of "self-narration" as if to explain what you are doing to yourself, and/or those near you, before you do it.

Strictly speaking the と itself is serving the same 'quoting function' in both usages.

Elizabeth · 7 Feb 2007

ポール said:
フロントに言って変えてもらうと = I'm going to call the front desk and get them to change it (my room).
The second form is often used as a sort of "self-narration" as if to explain what you are doing to yourself, and/or those near you, before you do it.
Strictly speaking the と itself is serving the same 'quoting function' in both usages.

Ahh, that makes more sense. I really do need a good dose of conversational speech, besides the news, practice.

undrentide · 7 Feb 2007

Bucko said:
まずはホテルに行かないと = First I have to go to the hotel.
フロントに言って変えてもらうと = I'm going to call the front desk and get them to change it (my room).

Could the 2nd sentence read
フロントに言って変えてもらおうっと (I'd call the front desk and have it changed)?

フロントに言って変えてもらうと sounds like a sentence without finishing properly
(When I called the front desk and have it changed...) and makes me wonder what happened then.
In this sentence (or rather, this clause), と means "then".

It may sound "self-narration" as Paul san suggested if it is
フロントに言って変えてもらう、と。

Elizabeth · 7 Feb 2007

undrentide said:
Could the 2nd sentence read
フロントに言って変えてもらおうっと (I'd call the front desk and have it changed)?
フロントに言って変えてもらうと sounds like a sentence without finishing properly
(When I called the front desk and have it changed...) and makes me wonder what happened then.
In this sentence (or rather, this clause), と means "then".

Yeah, that was my impression as well appearing as it does in contrastive form with "Mazu wa" (First of all...) from the first sentence, followed by "と" and then...after that...something happens, I can do something etc.

If it's just a copy error, on the other hand, these associations may be totally out of the blue and seriously messing up my mind.

The7thSamurai · 7 Feb 2007

Thanks for the replies everyone. It's interesting that there are so many ways to express "I have to" in Japanese.

By the way, you can listen to that conversation in context here:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/japanesepod101/327_I37_112406_jpod101.mp3

Bucko

Different ways to use と

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

Elizabeth

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

先輩

PaulTB

Manga Psychic

Elizabeth

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Elizabeth

先輩

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

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