Differences between 'arimasu' and 'desu'?

GoldCoinLover · 21 Jan 2006

I just got my CD "Japnaese basics I and II", made in 1984.

Its interesting. They say the word for car is daoubi ir something. But they mostly say it as kuruma

But, I'm completly confused. I'm on the third lesson, and they say how to respond no to if something is there, and it uses 'dewa'. What aggrevates me is they don't explain what the negative reply in what 'dewa' means.

Another thing.

There is a cat. "Neko ga imasu."
Is that a cat? "Neko ga imasu ka?"
Negative reply : Iie, arimasen. (There is also a 'wa' reply, but this means it isn't a cat, but something else..)
Positive reply: Hai, imasu.

Now, how do I know the differeence between 'arimasu' and 'desu'?

They sound identical

Arimasu means non animate, i.e not living. Desu means is/are . I see desu not on the subject of inanimate or living, but juste generally

See, I can say my name 2 ways:
Kevin to imasu. (Notice imasu. I'm alive, so I exist. More polite)
Or,

Watashi wa Kevin desu
Or, Kevin desu.
Notice I can use either 'imasu' (am alive) or desu.

Now whats teh difference between desu and arimasu? Please help

The program doesn't explain it! It frusterates me it won't explain 'dewa'

KrazyKat · 22 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
I just got my CD "Japnaese basics I and II", made in 1984.
Its interesting. They say the word for car is daoubi ir something. But they mostly say it as kuruma
But, I'm completly confused. I'm on the third lesson, and they say how to respond no to if something is there, and it uses 'dewa'. What aggrevates me is they don't explain what the negative reply in what 'dewa' means.
Another thing.
There is a cat. "Neko ga imasu."
Is that a cat? "Neko ga imasu ka?"
Negative reply : Iie, arimasen. (There is also a 'wa' reply, but this means it isn't a cat, but something else..)
Positive reply: Hai, imasu.
Now, how do I know the differeence between 'arimasu' and 'desu'?
They sound identical
Arimasu means non animate, i.e not living. Desu means is/are . I see desu not on the subject of inanimate or living, but juste generally
See, I can say my name 2 ways:
Kevin to imasu. (Notice imasu. I'm alive, so I exist. More polite)
Or,
Watashi wa Kevin desu
Or, Kevin desu.
Notice I can use either 'imasu' (am alive) or desu.
Now whats teh difference between desu and arimasu? Please help
The program doesn't explain it! It frusterates me it won't explain 'dewa'

Hi GCL,
You seem to be having a few problems here so I thought I'd try to help you out a bit.

The first thing you need to consider is that Japanese words don't correlate exactly to English words. Sure, desu does mean 'is' - but does not cover all the meanings of 'is'. Aru/arimasu and iru/imasu are used instead for the meaning of 'to exist'. da/desu was once expalined to me as if it was like an = sign. ie A wa B desu has a meaning similar to A = B.

Now. Arimasu is used for non-living and imasu for living. You have that right.
The negative of desu is 'dewa arimasen'. However, imasu is never used in place of arimasu in this negative construction. You just have to remember this phrase.

Lets try some example sentances.

neko desu. It is a cat.
neko dewa arimasen. It is not a cat.
neko ga imasu. There is a cat.

Can you see the difference between neko desu, and neko ga imasu?

Oh, and this is important. You are making a mistake when you are calling youself Kevin.
It is not kevin to imasu. From iru - to be 居る
instead it is kevin to iimasu. From iu - to say 言う

If you still have any questions just ask.
がんばってよ！
Katherine.

Damicci · 22 Jan 2006

dewa arimasu is just a negative conjugation of aru
Basic conjugation:
ARU Dictionary root form
ARIMASU Present Positive
DEWA ARIMASEN Present Negative
ARIMASHITA Past Positive
DEWA ARIMASENDESHITA Past Negative

Elizabeth · 22 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
I just got my CD "Japnaese basics I and II", made in 1984.
Its interesting. They say the word for car is daoubi ir something. But they mostly say it as kuruma

The word I think you're thinking of is Jidousha （自動車） which is closer to
automobile and used mostly when taking about the car industry and manufacturing and stuff. For everyday use it is usually "kuruma."

There is a cat. "Neko ga imasu."
Is that a cat? "Neko ga imasu ka?"
Negative reply : Iie, arimasen. (There is also a 'wa' reply, but this means it isn't a cat, but something else..)

Are you sure you heard this all correctly ? That is confusing if they are using "arimasen" to mean "There isn't a cat." Occasionally you will see "aru" used for animate things, but it is rare and most likely an error. The line here could be "There is nothing," but that is more properly "Nani mo arimasen."

GoldCoinLover · 22 Jan 2006

My mistake elizabeth.

Actually, it was:

Iie, imasen. (referring to the cat)

I hope this is correct.

The 'en' part seems to be negative

Same goes with wakarimasen, apparently. The 'en' makes it negative. Very interesting. Same goes with arimasu positive

Arimasen = negative

I wasn't thinking and accidently made it negative for inanimiate (arimasu) sorry.

Gaijinian · 22 Jan 2006

Masen (instead of masu) makes it negative.
Mashita--past
Masen deshita--Past negative

for ALL verbs (convenient, huh?)

GoldCoinLover · 22 Jan 2006

Gaijinian said:
Masen (instead of masu) makes it negative.
Mashita--past
Masen deshita--Past negative
for ALL verbs (convenient, huh?)

Yeah, it seems like my troubles before were I tried to complicate it too much.

You know, now complex english is compared to japanese (prouncing it) no wonder they have such a hard time. It seems to have more exceptions than rules (english, that is)

bentenmusume · 22 Jan 2006

Just to clear up a few fundamental misunderstandings here:

GoldCoinLover said:
See, I can say my name 2 ways:
Kevin to imasu. (Notice imasu. I'm alive, so I exist. More polite)
Or,

Watashi wa Kevin desu
Or, Kevin desu.
Notice I can use either 'imasu' (am alive) or desu.

This is why you need to pay attention to length of vowel sounds. It's not "Kevin to imasu", it's "Kevin to iimasu". "Iimasu" (言います) and "imasu" (居ます, but usually written in hiragana) are two completely different verbs. "Iimasu" is the verb for "say", so "Kevin to iimasu" would be something like "They call me Kevin" or "I go by the name of Kevin." That's if you want to analyze what the verb for "say" is doing in there. Practically speaking, it's just a way to say "My name is Kevin."

As for the difference between "desu" and "arimasu", here's a crash course that should clear up one difference:

"Pen desu ka?"
"Pen arimasu ka?"

The former is "Is this a pen?" -- something you would say if you were looking at something and weren't sure if it was a pen or a pencil, for example.
The latter is "Is there a pen?" or "Do you have a pen?" -- it's something you would say if you were looking to buy or borrow (or whatever) a pen and you wanted to know if the store/person/whoever you were asking had one.

J44xm · 25 Jan 2006

Damicci said:
dewa arimasu is just a negative conjugation of aru
Basic conjugation:
ARU Dictionary root form
ARIMASU Present Positive
DEWA ARIMASEN Present Negative
ARIMASHITA Past Positive
DEWA ARIMASENDESHITA Past Negative

Waaaait a second. Doesn't "dewa" only accompany negative forms of "da/desu"?

Also, GCL, here's a useful link that explains the differences between "desu," "iru," and "aru".

Glenn · 26 Jan 2006

J44xm said:
Waaaait a second. Doesn't "dewa" only accompany negative forms of "da/desu"?

1) Where did you see that in the list you quoted?

2) The answer is "no."

確かに先生ではあるんですが、最近はあまり授業などを教えていないんですよ。
First of all, apologies if this sentence is really strange. Anyway, は is sometimes used for contrast, and in this case the thing that's being contrasted is the idea that someone is not a teacher. So the sentence is something like "he certainly is a teacher, but he doesn't teach many classes these days." You can also insert it into adjectives like this: （その本は）面白くはあるけど、時間がないし読む機会はまずないし。。。 Does that makes sense?

J44xm · 1 Feb 2006

Glenn said:
1) Where did you see that in the list you quoted?

The list gave negative conjugations for "aru" using "dewa arimasen." Isn't "dewa arimasen" only the polite negative form of "desu," and isn't the negative form of "arimasu" just "arimasen"?

Glenn said:
2) The answer is "no."
確かに先生ではあるんですが、最近はあまり授業などを教えていないんですよ。
First of all, apologies if this sentence is really strange. Anyway, は is sometimes used for contrast, and in this case the thing that's being contrasted is the idea that someone is not a teacher. So the sentence is something like "he certainly is a teacher, but he doesn't teach many classes these days." You can also insert it into adjectives like this: （その本は）面白くはあるけど、時間がないし読む機会はまずないし。。。 Does that makes sense?

I haven't looked into the contrastive は much yet, in truth. However, this is a great start for it. Admittedly, parts of the sentences are a bit difficult at my current level, but you made your point.

Also, I think I should clarify that when I said "Doesn't 'dewa' only accompany negative forms of 'da/desu'?" I meant in da/iru/aru conjugation family, as suggested by my first comments in this post. I'm sorry for the confusion, but thanks for giving me something to mull over.

Glenn · 4 Feb 2006

Oh, sorry (and sorry for the delayed reply). Yes, if you're only considering those three verbs, then you're right.

Damicci · 4 Feb 2006

J44xm said:
Waaaait a second. Doesn't "dewa" only accompany negative forms of "da/desu"?
Also, GCL, here's a useful link that explains the differences between "desu," "iru," and "aru".

Well I meant to say that I have never seen dewa arimasu I have only seen it with the negative form for desu. I think that post i made was probably abit incorrect. My apologies.

J44xm · 5 Feb 2006

No problems, folks. Thanks to all. I'm just glad that I hadn't somehow learned my very basics incorrectly!

Differences between 'arimasu' and 'desu'?

GoldCoinLover

後輩

KrazyKat

先輩

Damicci

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

GoldCoinLover

後輩

Gaijinian

Sempai

GoldCoinLover

後輩

bentenmusume

原点回帰

J44xm

経験値が足りない

Glenn

一切皆苦

J44xm

経験値が足りない

Glenn

一切皆苦

Damicci

先輩

J44xm

経験値が足りない

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