Difference between Ga and Wo

EddieMo · 20 Sep 2011

Okay, so I really like the Japanese language and since I watch anime so much, I thought it would be cool to learn how to comprehend Japanese.

So far on my quest to self teach myself, I've come across a confusing path.

What is the difference between Ga and Wo?

Learn-Japanese.Info tells me:

"Examples:

Ringo o tabemasu. - I eat apples.
Ringo o tabetai. - I want to eat an apple.
Ringo ga tabetai. - I want to eat an apple.

In the above example, the second sentence just means that you want to eat apples. The third sentence means that you want to eat apples as opposed to something else. It's not really that important of a difference so you can stick with just o if you're more comfortable with it."

BUT what I still don't get it. Sometimes I see people type Ga instead of Wo and I'm left confused.

Sometimes I also wonder which one I should use in a sentence. Can anybody clarify this for me?

Thank you.

charusu · 20 Sep 2011

The たい form turns a verb into an い-adjective, which can't take objects (を marks the direct object of a transitive verb) - it is my understanding that since the たい form is derived from a verb that using を is okay though. So I think, and somebody else will confirm or not I'm sure, that they are somewhat equivalent. Using が would out more emphasis on the desire of the speaker, whereas を would put more emphasis on eating (in your example).

So:

Ringo o hoshii desu. (not correct)
Ringo ga hoshii desu. (correct)

Since 欲しい is a true い-adjective.

EddieMo · 20 Sep 2011

Sorry I can't really read Katakana, Hirugana or Kanji because I only know Romaji. xD

BUT from context, I believe I got the gist of what you are saying.

so Ga would put more emphasis on the direct object while O would put more emphasis on the predicate?

Okay but still when you say

Ringo o hoshii desu - I WANT the apple.
Ringo ga hoshii desu - I want the APPLE.

Is that it? and if it is, can you tell me why ringo o hoshii desu is not correct since you can be saying you WANT an apple.

Thank you!

charusu · 20 Sep 2011

Learning the Kanji is a process - but you need, more than anything (at this point), even the information in this post, to learn hiragana (first) and katakana (after you have learned hiragana).

First[ly], "Ringo o hoshii desu" will never be correct grammar. I wrote those examples to illustrate that an adjective (since it is an adjective, not a verb) cannot take an object.

Second[ly], 'ga' is used (usually) to mark the grammatical subject of a sentence, in "Ringo ga hoshii desu." the apple is the thing that is wanted, it is the subject of the sentence. It is not the object of a verb in that it is not being acted upon (by a verb), thus it is not marked with the object marker 'o'.

Since the ADJECTIVE 'tabetai' comes from a verb ('taberu') - it is less rigid in its inability to "take an object", so apple can be marked with either particle. In general, 'ga' puts emphasis on the predicate (or what comes after 'ga', WANTING to eat in this case) so that would be "I WANT to eat an apple." - whereas 'o' puts more emphasis on the activity, "I want to EAT an apple".

I know this sounds a bit lofty and hard to understand. Learn hiragana and katakana and check out Tae Kim's site (Introduction – Learn Japanese) to learn the basics. Trust me.

Toritoribe · 20 Sep 2011

charusu said:
The たい form turns a verb into an い-adjective, which can't take objects (を marks the direct object of a transitive verb)

More likely, it's not beacuse the -tai form of verbs acts as an adjective, but because it is stative. The -nai form(nagative) of verbs is also seemingly an i-adjective, but doesn't take "ga" as the object marker. Furthermore, verbs like "iru"(要る), "wakaru", "dekiru", or the potential form of verbs take the object marker "ga", even though they are not seemingly an i-adjective. These verbs/forms all express the state.

This "wo"/"ga" seems to be tough to explain even for linguists. There are many fuctors to detarmine which sounds more natural other than "Using が would out more emphasis on the desire of the speaker, whereas を would put more emphasis on eating" as charusu-san explained correctly.

charusu · 20 Sep 2011

Doumo Toritoribe-sensei!

So what about "wakaritai"? Could one say "[specific fact] o wakaritai"? My spidey-sense says no as "wakaru" is intransitive and "wakaritai" is describing the state of desiring understanding. But "[object] o tabetai" would be acceptable since "taberu" is transitive - even though "tabetai" is describing the state of wanting to eat? So all "-tai" forms are stative, thus all may take "ga" - but only "-tai" forms from transitive verbs can take "o" also?

Toritoribe · 21 Sep 2011

I just said "iru", "wakaru", "dekiru", -tai forms, and potential forms CAN TAKE the object marker "ga", and these verbs express the state. In other words, I didn't say that all stative verbs take the object marker "ga". In fact, there are many -tai forms that hardly take "ga" even among transitive verbs(e.g. 彼女が？助けたい, プレゼントが？あげたい). Further, I didn't mention "wo" at all.

As for "wakaritai", yes, "wo" can be used.
e.g.
君のことをもっとわかりたいと思った。
Kimi no koto wo motto wakaritai to omotta.

Because we can use "wo" even for "wakaru".
e.g.
君の気持ちをまったくわかっていなかった。
Kimi no kimochi wo mattaku wakatteinakatta.

The -tai form of intransitive verbs that can take "wo" (e.g. arukitai, wataritai, tooritai) also take "wo", of course.;-)

EDIT:
Supplement
My main point in my previous post is the reason the -tai form CAN take the object marker "ga". It's not because the -tai form is SEEMINGLY adjective, as you wrote, but rather because the -tai form is SEMANTICALLY stative. This idea can explain in a more rational way the reason why the -nai form can't take "ga", and the reason why "iru", "wakaru", "dekiru", or the potential form can take "ga".

EddieMo · 21 Sep 2011

Yes thank you for both of your inputs.
Charusu is right on about that it is very hard to understand.
Even now I still only vaguely get what you are both saying. Because I am primarily an English speaker, I'm not sure if the grammar from English is interfering with my ability to learn Japanese. If so, I will try my hardest to learn it.
Anyway, from what I vaguely understand from both of you is that
tai-verb forms CAN take ga, but usually take o.
Stative verbs take ga?
Action verbs take o?
Thank you!

Toritoribe · 21 Sep 2011

EddieMo said:
tai-verb forms CAN take ga, but usually take o.

No. As I wrote, there are so many factors to detarmine which sounds more natural, "ga" or "wo". The -tai form of intransitive verbs(except arukitai, wataritai, tooritai or like that) can't take the object in the first place, as charusu-san pointed out.

EddieMo said:
Stative verbs take ga?

More likely, some stative verbs CAN take the object marker "ga", i.e., NOT ALL stative verbs can take the object marker "ga". For instance, "aru"(to be) is a stative verb, but "ga" indicates not the object but the subject in the sentence "something ga aru".

EddieMo said:
Action verbs take o?

More likely, transitive verbs take the object marker "wo". For instance, "tomaru"(to stop) expresses an action, but can't take "wo", since "tomaru" is an intransitive verb.

EddieMo · 21 Sep 2011

Thank you very much Toritoribe-sensei!

Transitive verbs take the o while Intransitive verbs take the ga.

This makes more sense! Appreciate it.

But as you can see, my Japanese is still probably at a kindergarten level since I can barely structure my sentences.

Toritoribe · 21 Sep 2011

You'd better think about the subject marker "ga" and the object marker "ga" separately.

Transitive verbs take the object.
Intransitive verbs don't take the object.
"Wo" indicates the object. (i.e. Intransitive verbs can't take "wo" except some verb like "aruku", "wataru", "tooru", etc. When used with these verbs, "wo" indicates not the object but the route of the movement/transfer or the passing/departure point.)
"Ga" indicate the subject, but also indicates the object when used with "iru"("to need", not "to be"), "wakaru", "dekiru", -tai forms, or potential forms.

EddieMo · 23 Sep 2011

Ahh yess after studying a bit, I noticed that Ga is the SUBJECT marker while Wo is the OBJECT marker. Wa is the Topic Marker.

I was confused about this before thinking that Ga and Wo were interchangeable.

But now the website tells me how to use them.

Difference between Ga and Wo

EddieMo

後輩

charusu

先輩

EddieMo

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charusu

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

charusu

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

EddieMo

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

EddieMo

後輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

EddieMo

後輩

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