Did you hit a wall?

Hello!

This question is targeted mainly at native English speakers that have truly become fluent in Japanese.

I've been studying by myself for a while, and this year I've hired a private tutor. Everything seemed to be a breeze... but I've hit a wall. Sometimes I feel like my brain can retain not one more noun, verb or na- adjective and sometimes when my 家庭教師 speaks to me in Japanese it's like my mind just blanks out. I'm ok with the basic structures, but the more complicated sentences just blow my mind.

I strolled right through "beginner Japanese", but now that I'm hitting an intermediate level it feels like I'm gridlocked. Did anyone else experience this? I really want to learn, but I'm getting discouraged. My goal is native-fluency, but I'm honestly beginning to wonder if that's even possible for an アメリカ人.

Any words of wisdom, pep talks or tales of personal experience will be welcome! I just need someone to let me know this isn't impossible!! Thanks in advance!

It's funny, I just wrote a blog here that kind of touched on this (all in broken Japanese though). I know how you feel, I get discouraged a lot, too. Ironically, being in Japan makes me get discouraged even more than when I was studying back in the US because every day I see my shortcomings. What I've noticed, at least for me, is that learning comes in plateaus. Learning a language doesn't have to be a gradual climb, but instead little, sometimes huge, plateaus where you soak in the material but don't quite understand it. Then, after some time it finally "clicks" and your comprehension grows by leaps. But there's always the next plateau, and so the cycle continues and you again feel discouraged.

The best way to remedy this is to forget about "native-fluency" or any "end" goal for that matter. Your goal should just be "improvement". That's a tangible goal that you can objectively measure, whereas native-fluency is vague and even some natives are more fluent than others. Try and think back to how much your Japanese has improved since you first started. To be able to talk like a native in your second language certainly isn't impossible, just look at some of the people here on the forum like epigene and ASHIKAGA. There are many more, but those two come to mind since I've actually spoken with them. It's just a goal that you have to realize WILL take time and dedication. It's not hard, it just requires patience and endurance.

Also, I do not know if this is true since it hasn't happened to me yet, but advancing from "intermediate" to "advanced" is often said to be the hardest stage since you know just enough to realize how much you don't know so you always get discouraged. Perhaps other members who have done this can elaborate more. Be patient, strive for improvement, and eventually you'll get there. Best of luck in your studies! 諦めないで！頑張って！

You will need two things to achieve "native-fluency".

1. you are currently living in Japan and

2. you are quite young. (before puberty maybe).

Arron said:

I strolled right through "beginner Japanese", but now that I'm hitting an intermediate level it feels like I'm gridlocked. Did anyone else experience this? I really want to learn, but I'm getting discouraged. My goal is native-fluency, but I'm honestly beginning to wonder if that's even possible for an アメリカ人.

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I'm wondering what you define as "native fluency" since it varies by individual, as Half-n-Half pointed out. I think high-intermediate to advanced level is quite satisfactory, even if you will never be recognized as "practically native." If that is what you regard as native fluency, I think achieving that level is possible--provided that you have the drive and patience.

Picking up from where HnH posted, plateaus are quite natural when learning a foreign language. And plateaus become longer as the level of competence rises. It is this plateau (or "wall" that you describe) that "tests your mettle" in terms of learning. Many give up there, and few persist and eventually move on to the next level. That is where you're at and you are being tested.

Native fluency impossible for those who came to Japan only after finishing university studies? It might be for many, but there are people who can do it:

Peter Barakan came to Japan after finishing university in the UK:

Robert Campbell came after finishing studies in the US:

I must agree, getting past those "walls" can be quite discouraging. I am a slow learner when it comes to language, so when I start to become discouraged I listen to someone speaking or singing in Japanese, or I read some Japanese. I usually cannot understand everything that is being said, or even the main point for that matter, but it makes me feel good to be able to pick out words and phrases that I do understand.

I also have taken three years of German, and I would say I am an intermediate speaker. One of the biggest problems I have faced with both languages is vocabulary. In every language there are synonyms and homophones, and those are tend to be hard to get the hang of if you are not a native speaker.

Good luck with your studies ^^

I have been studying Japanese for 4 years, almost every day. I spent the first year on my own, then I went into a private school (which I'm still apart of)and took Japanese as a minor for 2 years in University, I carried on learning by myself though, by having language partners and some private tutors. Its only been 4 years but it has felt like an eternity.

There have been many times where I feel like I'm not really getting anywhere or feel down after trying to read Japanese articles online only to find I didn't know 10 of the 12 words that were being used in the first sentence. It hurts, because I know I put alot of energy into it, but this is how someone described to me learning something:

"Your in a room full of pictures, you spend years learning everything you can about these pictures, you know everything about these pictures down to the last detail. Your pleased with yourself, your happy, then one day you notice something, something very small, something you didn't notice before, its in-between two pictures, you go towards it and discover a door, you open it and find yourself in a room full of new pictures...".

I've gotten to a point where I can read some mangas in Japanese, can get the jist of whats going on in a news story in Japanese, but its no where near enough. The more you learn, the more you understand how much further you have to go. That's just how it is and I'm having a good time going through it all.

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement! It's good to know I'm not alone!
Special thanks to epigene for the video posts! I'm always interested in seeing gaijin speaking Japanese fluently. It gives me hope!! ^_^

I think I hit a wall every single day with my Japanese...sigh. It's coming, but so much slower than I'd like it to. It's actually part of the reason I'm changing jobs. I'm working for an Eikaiwa where I have to use English everyday...so I figured if I REALLY want to learn, I've got to make that change. Arron, I commend you for the trying to push past those barriers...some people hit those walls and don't even try to question...they just stop learning altogether. I hope you reach your Japanese goals.

I know exactly how you feel. I am currently at lower intermediate level in reading, and I anticipate staying at intermediate level more or less indefinitely -- or for many years anyway, assuming I keep up the study. I think there's a vast gulf between completing a beginners' course and achieving anything remotely resembling fluency... All the more so for English speakers trying to learn Japanese because there are virtually no familiar landmarks along the way, and most Westerners have built up virtually no "background" knowledge of Japanese, being limited to maybe two words like "tsunami" and "sushi"! So everything can just seem like random and meaningless combinations of syllables...

thejapanguy said:

I think I hit a wall every single day with my Japanese...sigh. It's coming, but so much slower than I'd like it to. It's actually part of the reason I'm changing jobs. I'm working for an Eikaiwa where I have to use English everyday...so I figured if I REALLY want to learn, I've got to make that change.

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I didn't really see any improvement until I did exactly that. I moved into a work environment where I was the only foreigner and where everything had to be done 100% in Japanese...where English ability was entirely useless and irrelevant.

I've often had Japanese people tell me that if they went to live in America they couldn't learn English as well as I had learned Japanese. And I always tell them, "If the rent and the groceries depended on it you would." It is amazing what you can do when you have to.

Mike Cash said:

I didn't really see any improvement until I did exactly that. I moved into a work environment where I was the only foreigner and where everything had to be done 100% in Japanese...where English ability was entirely useless and irrelevant.

I've often had Japanese people tell me that if they went to live in America they couldn't learn English as well as I had learned Japanese. And I always tell them, "If the rent and the groceries depended on it you would." It is amazing what you can do when you have to.

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Absolutely, a lot of Japanese who claim they couldn't learn English well while in the US are those who form groups with fellow (Japan-born) Japanese and are afraid to plunge into a totally English-only environment.
A woman I know who lives in CA for 20 years never learned to speak beyond her broken, only-for-driving-and-shopping English skills, let alone read and write.

Bumping into walls is very common, and understanding this is normal is very important to the language learning process. Maybe you're burned out and need to take some time off. Maybe you need to keep on reviewing what you've already worked on. And maybe you even need to give yourself a little push and try something harder.

Persistence will help you win over in the end. Keep up the learning, make sure you have some concrete goals, and make sure you've got a road map for reaching those goals.

orochi said:

Bumping into walls is very common, and understanding this is normal is very important to the language learning process.

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You can drop the "language" from that.

Glenn said:

You can drop the "language" from that.

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I second that. Learning is not like going straight uphill, you slid back down many times. Going back up is the real challenge.