da to iu & to iu

R

Ryovan

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24 Dec 2016

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• 24 Dec 2016

• #1

Please help. I am confused with the copula da affixed to 'to iu'. Any differences between them? I have seen some sites that stated that if adjectives they usually will affix 'da' to it. But I have seen some examples that even use 'da' to nouns as well and some without 'da'. Please clarify and I have been searching for days in Google for this answer but to no avail.

 

Toritoribe

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22 Feb 2008

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• 24 Dec 2016

• #2

Yes, those are different. See the following thread. (Hope you can read Japanese.)
koto & to iu in "to iu koto", "to iu imi", "to iu no wa" etc | Japan Forum

 

R

Ryovan

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24 Dec 2016

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• 24 Dec 2016

• Thread starter
• #3

I have read the thread but can't seem to find the answers that I wanted. Please help.

 

Toritoribe

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• 24 Dec 2016

• #4

という has many functions, as in the thread I linked above, but "noun という" is basically only used in the following usage.
koto & to iu in "to iu koto", "to iu imi", "to iu no wa" etc | Japan Forum

Do you want to know how to translate a sentence that contains という or だという, or which structure should be used for a specific sentence?

 

R

Ryovan

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24 Dec 2016

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• 25 Dec 2016

• Thread starter
• #5

Toritoribe said:

Do you want to know how to translate a sentence that contains という or だという, or which structure should be used for a specific sentence?

Click to expand...

Yes! T-T. I wanna know when da to iu and to iu should be used and the difference.

 

Toritoribe

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• 25 Dec 2016

• #6

The best explanation I can give you is the one(s) in the thread I linked above. Notice that what you are asking for is equal to asking to write several chapters of a grammar textbook. Have you ever learned even one function of という properly previously, by the way? Also, is there any reason why you have to use という? Please provide us the specific sentence(s).

 

R

Ryovan

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24 Dec 2016

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• 25 Dec 2016

• Thread starter
• #7

Yes, I did learn the basic usage of it and I notice some sentences they tend to have 'da' in it and some don't. I am just wondering about that. That's it. Examples:
1)職場の皆が冷たいという訳ではありません.
2)無理だという訳ではない.

 

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Twenty-year veteran

15 Mar 2002

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• 25 Dec 2016

• #8

[職場の皆が冷たい] [という訳] ではありません.

[無理だ] [という訳] ではない.

Does that help?

 

Toritoribe

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• 25 Dec 2016

• #9

As Mike-san wrote, という has completely the same function in those two examples. The clauses preceding という express the contents of 訳, as I explained in my previous post I provided to you.

Toritoribe said:

There are two types of relation between the adjectival clause and the noun in adjectival modifications.
------------------
2)彼が死んだといううそ: the lie that he dead
As I wrote in my previous post, the clause 彼が死んだ is the explanation regarding the content of うそ. うそ is not the subject/object/target of 彼が死んだ.

A linguist 寺村秀夫 named these relations 内の関係(inside-relation), 外の関係(outside-relation) respectively. という is needed only for the case of outside-relation.

Click to expand...

koto & to iu in "to iu koto", "to iu imi", "to iu no wa" etc | Japan Forum

verb: あなたが間違っているという訳ではない
i-adjective: 職場の皆が冷たいという訳ではない
na-adjective: 無理だという訳ではない
noun: 彼が犯人だという訳ではない

Notice that 無理だ is also a clause. There is an unmentioned subject of 無理だ here, which is omitted because it's obvious from the context. The copula だ is indeed sometimes omitted in the last two examples, though.
Needless to say, 間違っているだという訳ではない and 冷たいだという訳ではない are both wrong since "verb + だ" and "i-adjective + だ" are both ungrammatical.

 

R

Ryovan

後輩

24 Dec 2016

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• 26 Dec 2016

• Thread starter
• #10

Thanks alot! This helps. Thank you for being patient and thoughtful. Glad to have found this site.