Could somebody explain.................

Exactly, Elizabeth. The confrontations are getting too much. That's why I don't even bother reading most threads anymore. It seems there is unrest on every single one. I get sick and tired of the constant bickering and ego contests. It's highly annoying. Who wants to be part of that?

Oh, and just to clarify: I am not talking about Maciamo alone. I'm talking about several members who have done nothing to remedy the situations, even contributing to the conflicts and seemingly encouraging them.

kirei_na_me said:

I get sick and tired of the constant bickering and ego contests. It's highly annoying.

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What I said is not about "ego contest", just about basic recognition. A few members here have a black and white vision, seeing Thomas as the "good admin" because he lets them do anything they want, never criticise them and never warn them for their abusive behaviour, then me as the "bad admin" because I do my part of moderation job as an admin (for two !). It's easy to be the nice guy and turn a blind eye on everything so as to avoid be personally implicated. It's much harder to actually moderate a forum as big and diverse in its membership as this one.

Kirei_na_me, I am as sick and tired as you, but for different reasons. I try much harder to keep the forum alive and keep up with my moderation responsibilities, I contributed as much to JREF as Thomas, and all I get is people like Frank seeing me as "under Thomas", as "not being a creator of JREF" and as being the bad admin for taking my responsibilities seriously. All this because I have criticsed his country's government 2 years ago and he cannot tolerate that (as he admitted here). I have a good intuition about people. No need to word things out for me to read your mind. It's obvious enough through insinuations and behaviour.

kirei_na_me said:

Oh, and just to clarify: I am not talking about Maciamo alone. I'm talking about several members who have done nothing to remedy the situations, even contributing to the conflicts and seemingly encouraging them.

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And isn't Elizabeth one of them (and a prominant one, with that) ?

Maciamo said:

And isn't Elizabeth one of them (and a prominant one, with that) ?

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Personally I think it's best to let the situation evolve incrementally from here. I've tried very hard to get to the root of the conflict and encourage open discussion without inflamatory rhetoric but it is pretty wearisome for everyone I think.

Maciamo you are not seen as the "bad" admin! I can attest to that, I understand what you have done for JREF, but there was no need for you to toot your horn here, you do that enough by adding tag lines everywhere telling people that this section was created by Maciamo, or that this section is administrated by Maciamo, or this artile was written by Maciamo.

With the exeption of the articles, I see no need to attach your name to everything you do.

I for one do not see you as the "bad admin", but I do think that you are incapable of acting as an admin/moderator and a poster. You can not detach yourself from your feelings to be able to moderate fairly. Once you choose to post in a thread (as a poster) you should allow that thread to be moderated by someone else.

I operate 3 of my own forums, and moderate on another. The minute you get sucked into the discussion it becomes difficult for you to moderate it effectively. That is one reason I have found it best to not put mods over sections that they particularly enjoy posting in. If you love political or religious discussion, I would probably have you oversee the cooking section. The reason for this is that you can still partake in discussion in the things that you like and you don't have to remain objective. Someone else is there to moderate the discussion. Would you have two Presidential candidates in a public forum and have one of them as the moderator? No, you have a third party do it for you.

You love to join the discussions, which I have no problem with, but you must be able to detach from your personal feelings and your moderator duties in order to be successful. You have to realize that you have a moderator team, allow them to do their jobs, and you can sit back and enjoy the discussions. You will always have the admin "tag" by your name, and can step in where needed, but you seriously need to take a back seat at times.

I have a feeling we are getting closer to a solution. Time for everone to sit back and relax! And if possible improve Jref so more Japanese people join (or haven't you noticed the increasing Japanese posters in the last few months). It's always nice to have natives tell about how they see things about Japan.

CC1 said:

You can not detach yourself from your feelings to be able to moderate fairly. Once you choose to post in a thread (as a poster) you should allow that thread to be moderated by someone else.

I operate 3 of my own forums, and moderate on another. The minute you get sucked into the discussion it becomes difficult for you to moderate it effectively.

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I admit that there is some truth in this. However, most of the time moderators are reluctant to intervene in my threads or when I am in a 'too heated' discussion with someone. I think/feel that Thomas would be the most suitable person to intervene, but as he normally refuses to moderate (even when I request it from him), the situation easily turns sour. It can be quite hard to be attacked (not just criticised), especially by several people at the same time, and not being able to moderate as I am personally involved, not being able to use my admin power (e.g. close the thread) without being criticised more, and having no one to help ! It's so much easier to moderate other people's discussions.

Thomas's view is that an admin shouldn't participate in controversial discussions so as to avoid being in my situation. The problem is that very often I do not expect a thread to be "heated" when I start it. Problems only occur when things unfold differently from expected !

Perhaps you need a couple of more mods? People who are capable of being online more often?

I am glad that you are able to admit it though...for a while there it seemed as though you saw no problem with your actions, only problems with everyone else.

Now that you know what the problem is...work it for a solution.

Maybe asking some of the more responsible/mature regulars if they wish to become moderators will give an injection to the pool of moderators at your disposal, Maciamo?.

I agree with CC1 that its a good idea to have other moderators for the sub-forums your more involved in actively posting and participating in.

Also CC1, linkies to your forums please (out of a random momment of interest).

Thomas's view is that an admin shouldn't participate in controversial discussions so as to avoid being in my situation. The problem is that very often I do not expect a thread to be "heated" when I start it. Problems only occur when things unfold differently from expected !

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Yeah, since it seems yours usually do, any step to de-escalate the situation when it gets headed in that direction (besides premature locking) would be very productive.

Nurizeko...my forums are mostly trade forums (electricians, plumbers, etc...) areas for professionals to trade ideas and information. They are quite boring to the people who are not in those fields of work. I prefer not to post them here. I tend not to mingle business with pleasure and by posting them here, I would be doing just that.

I am currently working on another idea for a forum and once it is up and running I will probably post it here (it will be related to the topic of Japan). Not sure if I will get it off the ground though.

Right you are - mom's are so smart !

kirei_na_me said:

I'm talking about several members who have done nothing to remedy the situations, even contributing to the conflicts and seemingly encouraging them.

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Sorry, time to go to the corner for a time out.

Uncle Frank

Originally Posted by Maciamo
And isn't Elizabeth one of them (and a prominant one, with that) ?

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Elizabeth said:

Personally I think it's best to let the situation evolve incrementally from here. I've tried very hard to get to the root of the conflict and encourage open discussion without inflamatory rhetoric but it is pretty wearisome for everyone I think.

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Couple of points here, Maciamo 1st...

I think that one reason that myself and others get our noses bent out of joint is that there are many times that you throw an unecessary comment directed towards one individual poster in a post that has quite a bit of pertinent or "quality" information.

What ever you may think or say about me I don't dislike you at all. I have been trying to point out the same things that others have written here on any number of different occasions, pull out of moderating on threads that you post on, let others handle them, don't make threads or posts combining your poster face and admin face together. Keep them separate. I suggested this to you nearly 2 months ago, and have repeated it often.

I suggested this before and I would suggest it again, let your members here that have both the experience, attitude and ability to deal with moderating on the Japanese forums help you out.

Yeah, since it seems yours usually do, any step to de-escalate the situation when it gets headed in that direction (besides premature locking) would be very productive.

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I would add that just because a thread gets locked doesnt means that it has to stay that way. Give it a chance and the members a chance to cool off, a cool down period, a week 10 days, whatever, if people feel that passionitely about the subject they will come back to it. Leave a note on the thread explaining things.

Big thing here too don't patronize the membership.

However, most of the time moderators are reluctant to intervene in my threads or when I am in a 'too heated' discussion with someone

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Your honesty here is refreshing, now that you know what the difficulty is you can find a solution. Let your people/team know that they can moderate you when you are acting as a poster, without fear of any reprisal's or commentary from you. Everyone knows you are admin.

I would strongly suggest that when you act as an Admin you do it invisibly, when you moderate do it sensibly, but let people know you are acting as a moderator only.

How about setting up a different user account for yourself when you are posting as a user? Heck you are Admin it should be pretty easy to do. Then it would be obvious to everyone and all which position you were acting as.

Good to see the discussion turning positive here.

I see we're making some headway, yay!

Maciamo, I think you're a great admin. I always have. I thought you knew that. It's just that I wish everyone could back off when backing off is, I think, necessary. There are worse ones than you!!