Activity/change/Transitive/Intransitive verbs

thesuker · 18 Mar 2015

My textbook makes a difference between verbs that describe activities and verbs that describe changes. Two examples given are:

話す - activity
結婚する - change

It then goes on to say that 話している describes an action in progress while 結婚している describes the result of a change (being married). Then it goes on that ている after transitive verbs describe actions in progress, and ている after intransitive verbs describe states that hold after the change takes place.

It's clear to me that 結婚する is a change verb, but I'm not sure if it's is transitive or intransitive. The dictionaries I normally use (tangorin.com, jisho.org) don't list 結婚する, just 結婚. But, in any case, do intransitive-change verbs always coincide? Or are there transitive-change verbs?

Also, how can I distinguish an action verb from a change verb? It's not always as obvious as with 結婚する. Is there any reference or dictionary that tells you which are which? Or any method you guys use to know which is which?

nice gaijin · 18 Mar 2015

A good litmus test for whether something is transitive is if you can use を with it, and I can't think of many change verbs that are transitive. 折る... as in 骨を折った could be one, but 骨を折ってる seems kind of strange, compared to 骨が折ってる. Perhaps change verbs can't be use transitively, because the focus of change verbs is on that which is changing, so the object on the receiving end （を） becomes the subject/topic （が）

I don't know of any specific resource for change verbs, it's been a long time since I've even thought about the difference. I guess it's just one of those things you get used to?

Toritoribe · 18 Mar 2015

thesuker said:
Then it goes on that ている after transitive verbs describe actions in progress, and ている after intransitive verbs describe states that hold after the change takes place.

Don't you misread a critically important condition "as for a transitive-intransitive pair" in your textbook? For instance, 知る and 忘れる are transitive, but belong to change-of-state/punctual verbs. Furthermore, there are exceptions as always. とめる is transitive and has the intransitive counterpart とまる, but 家の前に車を停めている expresses a state, not an on-going action.

thesuker said:
Also, how can I distinguish an action verb from a change verb?

From Genki;
In most cases you can determine whether a verb belongs to Group 2(= durative verb) or 3(= punctual verb) by checking if the verb allows for a phrase describing duration, such as 一時間. Compare, for example,

○私はきのう一時間本を読みました。 I read a book for an hour yesterday.
×私は一時間死にました。 (Ungrammatical, much as the English translation "I died for an hour" which is also odd.)

読む thus belongs to Group 2, and 死ぬ to Group 3.

thesuker · 18 Mar 2015

First of all, thanks for your answers.

Maybe I have misread what the book says. At first it talks about transitive and intransitive verbs in general, but at the end of the section it does give examples of transitive/intransitive pairs.

I had forgotten about using 一時間 to determine it, thanks for reminding me. In the case of 降りる for example, would it belong to group 2 or 3 depending on the meaning?

山を降りている action in progress (im descending the mountain)
バスを降りている result of a change (im off the bus)

Mike Cash · 18 Mar 2015

thesuker said:
First of all, thanks for your answers.

Maybe I have misread what the book says. At first it talks about transitive and intransitive verbs in general, but at the end of the section it does give examples of transitive/intransitive pairs.

I had forgotten about using 一時間 to determine it, thanks for reminding me. In the case of 降りる for example, would it belong to group 2 or 3 depending on the meaning?

山を降りている action in progress (im descending the mountain)
バスを降りている result of a change (im off the bus)

Have you encountered the handy word 最中 yet?

thesuker · 18 Mar 2015

Mike Cash said:
Have you encountered the handy word 最中 yet?

I dont think I have.

Mike Cash · 18 Mar 2015

thesuker said:
I dont think I have.

It can help clear up ambiguous cases.

Toritoribe · 18 Mar 2015

thesuker said:
In the case of 降りる for example, would it belong to group 2 or 3 depending on the meaning?

山を降りている action in progress (im descending the mountain)
バスを降りている result of a change (im off the bus)

Yes. 山を下りている can express the current state after the change, and バスを降りている can be an on-going action depending on the context, though.
e.g.
彼はもう山を下りているのに、私はまだ5合目にいる。
バスを降りているときにつまずいた。

今、山を下りている最中/ところだ。 (This 下りる can't be punctual.)

thesuker · 19 Mar 2015

Thanks a lot of the clarification. I think I've got a better idea of how it works now.

Just one last question. My textbook lists 心配する, but doesn't give any information whether it can be used with any particles, and in the book is used in a conversation as 心配しないで下さい. How could I know whether 心配する is used with certain particles, is transitive/intransitive, etc? I can imagine something like 友だちは私を心配している as 'My friend worries me', but I have no idea if it's right or not.

Mike Cash · 19 Mar 2015

I would "cheat" by googling を心配 as a unit (inside quotation marks).

thesuker · 19 Mar 2015

I was just about to answer myself on that last question. I found this website: è±èªå¦ç¿ã»TOEICå¯¾çã»è±è¾é on the WEB | ã¢ã«ã¯ in which you can search for 'を心配する', for example, and it gives you the uses it has with that particle. Also tried 'を結婚する' for good measure and it gave me 0 results. Tried 'と結婚する' and gave me the one I expected, among others. Quite handy.

Mike Cash · 19 Mar 2015

We live in marvelous times.

Activity/change/Transitive/Intransitive verbs

thesuker

先輩

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

thesuker

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

thesuker

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

thesuker

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

thesuker

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

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