About the "koto ga dekiru" form

[Elizabeth]

I under stand using koto ga, but I don't understand what is the benefit of using one over the other. unless you don't know how to go conjugate a verb.

Examples of c-stem verbs:
isogu isogimasu hurry
kaku kakimasi write
nuru nurimasu paint (why this isn't a v-stem verb i don't know)
yomu yomimasu read
nomu nomimasu drink
tobu tobimasu fly

The final 'u' --> 'eru' (potential) for these. I still don't get 'c' as a base thing.

 

[Damicci]

Your guess is better than mine. Considering you are way more knowledgable than I. But I checked around and those are the examples of C-stem verbs. I don't even know why they are categorized as "letter" -stem verbs

 

[Damicci]

I think I mentioned this somewhere in this thread before, but I always used it to bail out if I was iffy on the conjugation. I would think Elizabeth is right, in that koto ga dekiru is in fact 'stiffer' than just -rareru... afterall, more syllables, and you don't hear it as often, no?

So that maybe but why even have the ability to use koto ga... I can't seem to find on the web why koto ga... is even useful besides covering up loss of ability to conjugate a verb. Is ther enot an official way of using koto ga I mean like is there specific reasons why you would use one over the other.
Politeness, Ease of use, professionalism.

Maybe I am just being to dense too grasp it ☝

 

[GaijinPunch]

Why in English could you say "I'm able to jog" when you could easily say "I can jog". In other words, I wouldn't dwell on it too much. Just remember you can use both. I think it's fair to say that Elizabeth is an advanced speaker, and still questioned the nuance between the two (to which nobody has given a solid answer mind you). IE - there's more things to worry about in your langauge studies.

 

[Glenn]

My guess is that C-stem verbs are "consonant-stem," i.e. godan (or strong, -ru, or Group I), and V-stem verbs are "vowel-stem," i.e. ichidan (or weak, -eru/iru, or Group II). It must be because godan verbs keep the consonant in inflection while the ichidan verbs do not. E.g. shiru --> shiranai, shireru, shiraseru, shirareru, but taberu --> tabenai, tabe(ra)reru, tabesaseru, taberareru.

By the way, nuru is C-stem because no verb that has (C)u* before the final ru is ever an ichidan verb.

*where "C" is a consonant.

 

[Damicci]

So basicaly we are talking verb endings

C stem verbs in in a consonant when conjugated SHIRU Shi(R)imasu
And V stem Verbs end in Vowels when conjugated TABERU Tab(E)masu

 

[Index]

I've often used the kotoga form to bail myself out at times actually. I'd also agree though that it seems like a stiffer and more formal version of rareru. On the other hand, just as in other languages, there are many ways of saying things, and the appropriateness of one form over another depends on context, nuance and emotional content. Someone mentioned earlier that it might be easier to say 'I can ride a bike' rather than 'I am able to ride a bike', but there is a difference in terms of pragmatics, or the situation, in which you might use one over the other. For example, I could imagine saying 'I am able to ride a bike' if I wanted to imply that I can ride a bike but I don't want to, or I don't think it's a good idea, or if I wanted to make a fool of my interlocutor.

Furthermore, there are issues of colloquialism, which might be relevant when you hear something along the lines of 英語も日本語も出来る、or 英語が出来る.

EDIT: GaijinPunch said 'I can jog', not 'I can ride a bike', but the point is the same.

 

[Damicci]

Sorry just completely hit me. So then yes it would more polite to use kotoga than just dekiru?

 

[Elizabeth]

Sorry just completely hit me. So then yes it would more polite to use kotoga than just dekiru?

No, you need to use the entire phrase 'koto ga dekiru' after verbs....I don't think you need to worry too much about it here, though. Your signature on the other hand might be more of a concern.....

 

[Index]

Your signature on the other hand might be more of a concern.....

Ha ha, I was wondering whether I should say something...

 

[Damicci]

Yeah I know I messed up some where been waiting on it to be struck down.
but that's what I meant about using the whole koto ga dekiru and instead of just dekiru....

I guess I'll go fix my sig

P.S. that was a cheap shot.

 

[Elizabeth]

I under stand using koto ga, but I don't understand what is the benefit of using one over the other. unless you don't know how to go conjugate a verb.

'Koto ga dekiru' is sometimes seen as unintentionally strong or emphatic -- when you need to make absolutely clear there is an action that cannot be done. Otherwise, to avoid any of these traps, it is safest to use as many conjugated forms as remembered (even Japanese people joke that's why the form exists, after all.... ).