Abortion?

I'm going to say this once more, because I perhaps wasn't clear. I wasn't using the comparison between a fetus and a parasite to justify abortion. My response was intended only to clarify my previous statement, not to use it as any kind of justification. If you feel that it's rhetoric and irrelevant, ignore it and address the points that you find relevant. So far, you've only concentrated on what you seem to consider irrelevant. I don't see anything I've said that assumes your stance on the subject, but If you haven't stated your own opinion and rationalization for why abortion should or should not be allowed, what are you doing in this thread?
 
Why are we even debating what a fetus is? A fetus is a fetus, nothing more nothing less. By deciding with our limited cognition whether its A or B, will it become something else? No. Obviously not. So in my opinion we should stop the mud slinging contest because we're already arguing about abstract things.
 
😌 See, this is what happens in almost every single abortion discussion. A bunch of guys start debating the pro and cons and rights and wrongs about aborting a fetus, completely ignoring the fact that this isn't an issue that should even concern them unless they are the potential father and/or the womans doctor.

I don't know how many times it has to be said but this isn't a mans issue, the debating and decision making should be left up to women and women alone.
 
What I'm doing is substantially agreeing with MadamePapillon point.

I'm adding the comment that in another thread she brings up driving a car through a wall to save a life, and that even animals should not be treated cruelly or killed without reason. Could pro-lifers use the same argument to defend human fetuses in the case of abortion? or is this just a male argument?
 
Last edited:
nice gaijin said:
As a continuation of the dialogue: One thing I've noticed about anti-abortion arguments is that they center around the notion that "life begins at conception;" an assumption that is necessary for there to be a 'victim' of abortion with which to sympathize. A fertilized egg does not always lead to a human being, and from a logical standpoint, until a fetus is able to survive on its own outside the womb, it's not so different from a parasite. Of course I'm not saying that they ARE parasites or that they should be treated as such, but I'm a bit perturbed by the indignation of the "life is sacred" crowd, that seems so much more concerned with the welfare of a collection of cells with the potential to mature into a human than the already mature human in which said cells reside.
Click to expand...
It seems like you were actually comparing a fetus to a pararsite here to justify abortion... and you did say that a fertilized egg doesn't always lead to a human being... if these statements were made without being in support of your abortion position than I misunderstood you and I apologize.
By the way: Fertilized human reproductive cells become a fetus if properly implanted, and they will mature into an infant which will mature into an adult human. Drawing a line at some point that says this is human life with rights and this is not should have more of a logical basis.
 
and about that "life is sacred crowd" being more concerned about an immature collection of cells than a mature collection of cells... I don't think they are choosing one over the other, in their perspective, both collections can continue living.
 
sabro said:
It seems like you were actually comparing a fetus to a pararsite here to justify abortion... and you did say that a fertilized egg doesn't always lead to a human being... if these statements were made without being in support of your abortion position than I misunderstood you and I apologize.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can see how it could seem that way, but I was just trying to express my exasperation at the "pro-life" argument that life begins at conception, when pregnancy doesn't even begin until implantation. The mention of parasite was partially meant to play devil's advocate; it's interesting how different the situation seems when looked at from another perspective/vocabulary. The word was meant to illustrate the fetus's absolute dependence on the woman carrying it, not to justify or promote abortion.

By the way: Fertilized human reproductive cells become a fetus if properly implanted, and they will mature into an infant which will mature into an adult human. Drawing a line at some point that says this is human life with rights and this is not should have more of a logical basis.
Click to expand...
Assuming everything goes well, pregnancy does lead to a human being, but there is no maturing into an adult human if the fetus is unable to survive outside the womb. This is why I consider it a logical cut-off point of when the fetus becomes a human.

I would like to say that humanity goes hand in hand with sentience, but this would be a much more difficult timeline to establish.

MadamePapillon said:
I don't know how many times it has to be said but this isn't a mans issue, the debating and decision making should be left up to women and women alone.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree that it's a woman's issue and it's her decision, but that doesn't disqualify men from having an opinion or having the right to express that opinion. It's when they unilaterally try to impose that opinion on women as a form of state policy that it goes too far, and what I have been arguing against from the beginning.
 
If Humanity is only granted to those with sentience than those people without sentience, due to traumatic brain injury, permanent loss of conscience, or mental retardation... do they lack humanity? At what point does an infant obtain sentience?
 
sabro said:
If Humanity is only granted to those with sentience than those people without sentience, due to traumatic brain injury, permanent loss of conscience, or mental retardation... do they lack humanity? At what point does an infant obtain sentience?
Click to expand...
That's why I said it's a difficult timeline to establish, and is not a part of my rationale.
 
I'm not certain that the state should decide that a woman must always carry a pregnancy to term. I would however say that abortion should always be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

We do have other laws about what you can and can't do with your body in the privacy of your own home or even in a doctors office. And just as you are miffed by arguments that want to give human life status to a collection of cells, it is equally miffing to deny both humanity and life to what is completely, genetically, human and entirely alive.
 
This has always been a hard issue for me... I would first like to say that no one should ever have the right to infringe upon another human being's right to do whatever they want with their body. This is a grey area, as a few have mentioned already, and I couldn't agree more.

I completely respect a woman's right to abortion if it's done in the case of:

-Saving her life/health reasons
-Rape
-Incest
-Done within a certain time period. (Perhaps within the first trimester)
-Not financially ready to bear and take care of the baby. Which burns me up a bit when I see a family on welfare with tons of children and the mother keeps getting pregnant. She just keeps popping them out as if she were a PEZ-dispenser. In this case I do think the government should step in and say "No more!". But that would be infringing upon someone's rights as a human. But for the good in my opinion. (I apologize if that offended anyone).
-The woman not being fit to be a mother. (underage)
-If the woman is a drug addict.

I don't respect a woman's right to abortion in the case of:

-Her not wanting to go through pain (lame excuse)
-Her not wanting her body to go to Sh*t (lame excuse)
-Partial birth abortion. I mean who does that!? I have to say that I am vehemently against it. If she decides that she doesn't want it anymore, as the baby is being born, then give it up for adoption.

The reasons that I gave are tentative, mainly because it's such a hard issue to think about and I'm sure there are many reasons that I may not have even considered yet. I understand that abortion isn't simple for anyone, ESPECIALLY a woman. The mother's emotions have to be taken into account. This issue is not painted in black and white and must be handled with care. Whatever a woman's decision is to get an abortion, whether I agree or disagree with it, I will not judge them, for I don't know and will never know what it's like to be pregnant. Sorry, but thank god....
 
Indeed it is a woman's issue, and NOT another million womens'.
The choice should be offered.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom