に vs. で question.

GenjiMain · 29 Jul 2018

Hi guys,

Just wondering why in the phrase "きょうこさんはおかしをつくったり、家にゲームをしたりしました。" に is used instead of で in the area highlighted.

Thanks.

Toritoribe · 29 Jul 2018

で is the correct answer for an exercise in Genki I Chapter 11 Practice Ⅱ A-2 "きょうこ: made sweets, played games at home, etc." since 家 is the location where the action takes place. Where did you get the answer に?

GenjiMain · 30 Jul 2018

Toritoribe said:
で is the correct answer for an exercise in Genki I Chapter 11 Practice Ⅱ A-2 "きょうこ: made sweets, played games at home, etc." since 家 is the location where the action takes place. Where did you get the answer に?

Oops you're right. I must have misheard. Thanks Tori.

I also have a follow u question if you don't mind. In my notes (from a while ago) I have the translation for "what do you want for lunch?" as "昼ごはんになにがたべたいですか。", but "昼ごはんはなにがたべたいですか。" makes more sense to me. Which of these are correct and why?

Thanks.

Toritoribe · 30 Jul 2018

Both are correct. は is the topicalized version of に, so you can also use お昼ごはんには、なにが食べたいですか as well. This は or には can have a contrastive nuance, something like "especially as lunch, not breakfast or dinner", whereas に is neutral.

GenjiMain · 31 Jul 2018

Toritoribe said:
Both are correct. は is the topicalized version of に, so you can also use お昼ごはんには、なにが食べたいですか as well. This は or には can have a contrastive nuance, something like "especially as lunch, not breakfast or dinner", whereas に is neutral.

All of this makes sense to me except for why に would also be appropriate here. The only explanation that remotely makes sense to me (but is still probably wrong) is that に can be used as a 'destination' particle. Because I'm asking about a desired event in the future that requires movement or a change of state, using に is appropriate? ^_^

Toritoribe · 31 Jul 2018

It's considered a variation of "reference point (基準)".
e.g.
お土産に（は）お菓子がいい。
Sweets are appropriate for/as a souvenir.

プレゼントに花が欲しい。
I want flowers as a gift.

彼はこの仕事に向いている。
He is suited for this work.

この問題は彼女には難しい。
This question is difficult for her.

GenjiMain · 31 Jul 2018

Could you elaborate on what you mean by reference point Tori?

Toritoribe · 2 Aug 2018

standard ones of this に

彼は父親に似ている。
He resembles his father.

1ドルは110円に等しい。
One dollar is equivalent to 110 yen.

彼女の家は学校に近い。
Her home is close to the school.

にの意味
１［格助］名詞、名詞に準じる語、動詞の連用形・連体形などに付く。
11 比較・割合の基準や、比較の対象を表す。「君に似ている」「一日に三回服用する」
に［格助接助終助並助］の意味 - goo国語辞書

−に
((格助詞))

5 〔比較，関係〕
前記に同じ
the same as the above-mentioned

それはこれに劣る
That is 「inferior to this [worse than this].

人生はよく川にたとえられる
Life is often likened [compared] to a river.

兄に比べると背が低い
Compared with his brother, he is rather short.

その事件に関係している
He 「is connected [has something to do] with that incident.

スキャンダルに巻き込まれた
He was involved in a scandal.
にを英語で訳す - goo辞書英和和英

GenjiMain · 2 Aug 2018

Okay, I think I'm beginning to understanding it.

So, に follows the word which is the 'thing' being compared with/related to some 'other thing'. In the examples above, that 'other thing' is marked by the topic marker は, or if not, is implied by context (e.g. 兄に比べると背が低い, その事件に関係している).

I'm guessing in my example "昼ごはんになにがたべたいですか", the first 'thing' is lunch and the 'other thing' is what wants to be eaten.

Let me know if I'm wrong anywhere here Tori. Thanks a lot.

Toritoribe · 2 Aug 2018

Yes, your understanding is basically correct, except "the other thing" is actually "what you want to eat". に is close to として "as/for" there.

GenjiMain · 6 Sep 2018

For anyone who wants to help...

In the phrase 政治に興味がない is に also a reference particle similar to the examples above? Also, can を be used here instead of に without changing the meaning?

Thanks a lot.

Toritoribe · 6 Sep 2018

No and no. It indicates the target of the action/effect.

６動作・作用の行われる対象・相手を表す。「人によくかみつく犬」「友人に伝える」
に［格助接助終助並助］の意味 - goo国語辞書

13 〔…に関して〕
彼は公徳心に欠けている
He is lacking in a sense of public morality.

青年は活力に満ちていた
The youth was full of vitality.
にを英語で訳す - goo辞書英和和英

に vs. で question.

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

GenjiMain

Sempai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Similar threads