What's new

Welcome to Japan Reference (JREF) - the community for all Things Japanese.

Join Today! It is fast, simple, and FREE!

Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

に vs. で question.

GenjiMain

後輩
Joined
29 Jul 2018
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
Hi guys,

Just wondering why in the phrase "きょうこさんはおかしをつくったり、家ゲームをしたりしました。" に is used instead of で in the area highlighted.

Thanks.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
で is the correct answer for an exercise in Genki I Chapter 11 Practice Ⅱ A-2 "きょうこ: made sweets, played games at home, etc." since 家 is the location where the action takes place. Where did you get the answer に?
 

GenjiMain

後輩
Joined
29 Jul 2018
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
で is the correct answer for an exercise in Genki I Chapter 11 Practice Ⅱ A-2 "きょうこ: made sweets, played games at home, etc." since 家 is the location where the action takes place. Where did you get the answer に?
Oops you're right. I must have misheard. Thanks Tori.

I also have a follow u question if you don't mind. In my notes (from a while ago) I have the translation for "what do you want for lunch?" as "昼ごはんなにがたべたいですか。", but "昼ごはんなにがたべたいですか。" makes more sense to me. Which of these are correct and why?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
Both are correct. は is the topicalized version of に, so you can also use お昼ごはんには、なにが食べたいですか as well. This は or には can have a contrastive nuance, something like "especially as lunch, not breakfast or dinner", whereas に is neutral.
 

GenjiMain

後輩
Joined
29 Jul 2018
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
Both are correct. は is the topicalized version of に, so you can also use お昼ごはんには、なにが食べたいですか as well. This は or には can have a contrastive nuance, something like "especially as lunch, not breakfast or dinner", whereas に is neutral.

All of this makes sense to me except for why に would also be appropriate here. The only explanation that remotely makes sense to me (but is still probably wrong) is that に can be used as a 'destination' particle. Because I'm asking about a desired event in the future that requires movement or a change of state, using に is appropriate? ^_^
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
It's considered a variation of "reference point (基準)".
e.g.
お土産に(は)お菓子がいい。
Sweets are appropriate for/as a souvenir.

プレゼントに花が欲しい。
I want flowers as a gift.

彼はこの仕事に向いている。
He is suited for this work.

この問題は彼女には難しい。
This question is difficult for her.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
standard ones of this に

彼は父親に似ている。
He resembles his father.

1ドルは110円に等しい。
One dollar is equivalent to 110 yen.

彼女の家は学校に近い。
Her home is close to the school.


にの意味
1[格助]名詞、名詞に準じる語、動詞の連用形・連体形などに付く。
11 比較・割合の基準や、比較の対象を表す。「君に似ている」「一日に三回服用する」

に[格助接助終助並助]の意味 - goo国語辞書


−に
((格助詞))

5 〔比較,関係〕
前記に同じ
the same as the above-mentioned

それはこれに劣る
That is 「inferior to this [worse than this].

人生はよく川にたとえられる
Life is often likened [compared] to a river.

兄に比べると背が低い
Compared with his brother, he is rather short.

その事件に関係している
He 「is connected [has something to do] with that incident.

スキャンダルに巻き込まれた
He was involved in a scandal.

にを英語で訳す - goo辞書 英和和英
 

GenjiMain

後輩
Joined
29 Jul 2018
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
Okay, I think I'm beginning to understanding it.

So, に follows the word which is the 'thing' being compared with/related to some 'other thing'. In the examples above, that 'other thing' is marked by the topic marker は, or if not, is implied by context (e.g. 兄に比べると背が低い, その事件に関係している).

I'm guessing in my example "昼ごはんになにがたべたいですか", the first 'thing' is lunch and the 'other thing' is what wants to be eaten.

Let me know if I'm wrong anywhere here Tori. Thanks a lot.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
Yes, your understanding is basically correct, except "the other thing" is actually "what you want to eat". に is close to として "as/for" there.
 

GenjiMain

後輩
Joined
29 Jul 2018
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
For anyone who wants to help...

In the phrase 政治に興味がない is に also a reference particle similar to the examples above? Also, can を be used here instead of に without changing the meaning?

Thanks a lot.
 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁
Moderator
Joined
22 Feb 2008
Messages
16,993
Reaction score
3,236
Top Bottom