お honorific

northsider1983 · 4 Jul 2007

Can you attach お to any noun to make it 'honorific'? In my reading I see おさけ (osake) to make sake honorific. Or, おげんきですか has it as well. Can you do this with any noun? Or only certain ones?

frostyg02uk · 4 Jul 2007

I may be wrong but O sake is the difference between beer (sake) and what we just call sake (Osake)
Its not just nouns too E.G. Ogenki desu ka? but as a male i wouldnt recommend you using that too often :OD

epigene · 4 Jul 2007

northsider1983 said:
Can you attach お to any noun to make it 'honorific'? In my reading I see おさけ (osake) to make sake honorific. Or, おげんきですか has it as well. Can you do this with any noun? Or only certain ones?

No, you can't do it with EVERY noun. There are exceptions. However, use of お as honorific is closely linked with how the sentence is phrased in honorific form, so you'll have to be careful.

The best way to learn its usage is from example provided in books and actual conversation by native speakers.

In the examples you gave, おさけ is OK is virtually all cases I can think of.
おげんきですか is used as polite (but not necessarily formal) form by both genders, so you can use it most of the time.

Soloistic · 4 Jul 2007

"The prefix o- can be used with certain nouns to make them more polite. O- has two functions. One is to elevate another person's belongings to show your respect for that person. The other is simply to show overall politeness, whether the thing referred to is the speaker's or someone else's. Whether o- shows respect or simple politeness depends on the word. For example, o- attached to namae "name" shows respect and thus, you cannot say watashi no onamae "my name," because it is considered inappropriate for the speaker to elevate him or herself."

Thats what my book has in it about O.

JimmySeal · 4 Jul 2007

frostyg02uk said:
I may be wrong but O sake is the difference between beer (sake) and what we just call sake (Osake)

There is no difference in meaning. The specific word for what Westerners call sake is nihonshu.

Tomii515 · 4 Jul 2007

=D i know the word nihonshu! It was in the brochere thingy my Japanese friend sent me! If I remember correctly, it says something like "...American's call it "sake", whereas Japanese usually call it "nihonshu", meaning "japan's alcohol" or something

=D

Charles Barkley · 4 Jul 2007

In my opinion, best not to try to study お type honorific phrases out of the book. The few times you do end up saying them, you will probably have simply learned お as part of the word, like おさけ, ごはん, and ごちそうさま. Since both を and ご suffix different words, and those words are set, not by any real set of reasons, but just through usage, you're better off waiting until you come to Japan and learning which suffix to attach to which word by hearing them a million times.

ie: 少々お待ち下さい = Please wait a moment.
shoushou omatchikudasai

ご案内申し上げます= Let me guide you (this way) (I think?)
goannai moushiagemasu

Even when you learn them, you'll probably never use them...

Elizabeth · 4 Jul 2007

northsider1983 said:
Can you attach お to any noun to make it 'honorific'? In my reading I see おさけ (osake) to make sake honorific. Or, おげんきですか has it as well. Can you do this with any noun? Or only certain ones?

The prefix o in osake I can imagine because it was traditionally considered in an 'unclean' or 'impure' category of things along with several others namely gohan, okane, otoire, ocha (??? unbelievable...), onaka....

Ogenki because it technically should be more polite, but in reality because it sounds soft, feminine and so much cuter than genki? alone.

JimmySeal · 4 Jul 2007

I'd heard that honorifics are used with ocha, and okane because those short words sound harsh on the ear if the sound isn't softened with a prefix.

northsider1983 · 4 Jul 2007

Thank you for all the advice. :-]

nekocat · 4 Jul 2007

JimmySeal said:
I'd heard that honorifics are used with ocha, and okane because those short words sound harsh on the ear if the sound isn't softened with a prefix.

That's true. In Tokyo dialect (and others), one- or two- mora words like 茶, 水, 手, 金（かね） are too short to be distinguishable enough(prone to be confusing). So honorific お tend to combine with these words.
In Kansai dialect, since 茶 for example is pronounced ちゃあ (prolonged sound), they tend to dispense with honorifics for such short words.

茶ちゃあ
手てぇ
目めぇ

Mike Cash · 4 Jul 2007

Charles Barkley said:
In my opinion, best not to try to study お type honorific phrases out of the book. The few times you do end up saying them, you will probably have simply learned お as part of the word, like おさけ, ごはん, and ごちそうさま. Since both を and ご prefix different words, and those words are set, not by any real set of reasons, but just through usage, you're better off waiting until you come to Japan and learning which prefix to attach to which word by hearing them a million times.
ie: 少々お待ち下さい = Please wait a moment.
shoushou omatchikudasai
ご案内申し上げます= Let me guide you (this way) (I think?)
goannai moushiagemasu
Even when you learn them, you'll probably never use them...

Actually, it isn't as random as you believe.

お goes with native Japanese words and 御 (ご) goes with words formed using the on-yomi (Chinese readings) of kanji.

And they're prefixes...not suffixes.

JimmySeal · 4 Jul 2007

Mike Cash said:
Actually, it isn't as random as you believe.

お goes with native Japanese words and 御 (ご) goes with words formed using the on-yomi (Chinese readings) of kanji.

That is the general idea, but there are exceptions, a prime example being 元気. Also, honorific prefixes can't be tacked on left and right indiscriminately. Many words accept honorific prefixes more readily than others.

nekocat · 5 Jul 2007

In my opinion, best not to try to study お type honorific phrases out of the book.

I agree!

Mike Cash said:
Actually, it isn't as random as you believe.
あﾂｨ goes with native Japanese words and あﾃ､ (あﾂｲ) goes with words formed using the on-yomi (Chinese readings) of kanji.
And they're prefixes...not suffixes.

I agree with Jimmy, it's a very general idea, and you'll find tons of exception.

お仏壇 o-butsudan
お正月 o-shougatsu
お赤飯 o-sekihan
お焼香 o-shoukou
お節介 o-sekkai
お帽子 o-boushi

kango 漢語 (words derived from Chinese) tend to take go-honorific, but as you see above, it's a very irregular rule. You might expect such "Latinish" words as 仏壇、焼香 to take go-honorific, but they don't.

Charles Barkley · 5 Jul 2007

Mike Cash said:
Actually, it isn't as random as you believe.
お goes with native Japanese words and 御 (ご) goes with words formed using the on-yomi (Chinese readings) of kanji.
And they're prefixes...not suffixes.

Ahh didn't know that. Good to know as a general rule of thumb, despite the exceptions.

It seems I made many mistakes in my post. I also wrote を and ご...

nekocat · 5 Jul 2007

Charles Barkley said:
Ahh didn't know that. Good to know as a general rule of thumb, despite the exceptions.
It seems I made many mistakes in my post. I also wrote あð and あ²...

No, that "general idea" is almost wrong, remembet this way instead:

お for 和語、ご for 漢語。
O- for words of Japanese origin (Yamato-kotoba), go- for those of Chinese origin.

EDIT: This is not true.
お for 和語 and familiar 外来語. ご for 漢語.

Mike Cash · 5 Jul 2007

nekocat said:
No, that "general idea" is almost wrong, remembet this way instead:
お for 和語、ご for 漢語。
O- for words of Japanese origin (Yamato-kotoba), go- for those of Chinese origin.

Isn't that what I said?

お honorific

northsider1983

先輩

frostyg02uk

先輩

epigene

相変わらず不束者です

Soloistic

後輩

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

Tomii515

やった～！

Charles Barkley

TNT Basketball Analyst

Elizabeth

先輩

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

northsider1983

先輩

nekocat

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

nekocat

先輩

Charles Barkley

TNT Basketball Analyst

nekocat

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Similar threads