Which is the subject?

JimmySeal · 10 Jul 2007

"And in all the air a solemn stillness holds."

Stillness is still the subject here.

I am saying that possibly holds="possesses, has"

So
All the air has a solemn stillness.

Not just part of the air has gone still, but rather, all of it.
Still seems like it works to me.

Supervin · 11 Jul 2007

JimmySeal said:
Stillness is still the subject here.

I am saying that possibly holds="possesses, has"

So
All the air has a solemn stillness.

Not just part of the air has gone still, but rather, all of it.
Still seems like it works to me.

The point is whether 'And all the air a solemn stillness holds' should be read:

(a) 'And a solemn stillness holds all the air.' (subject = a solemn stillness)
(b) 'And all the air holds a solemn stillness.' (subject = all the air)

I think bakaKanadajin is saying that for (b) to work, there should've been a proposition like 'in' before 'all the air':
'And in all the air a solemn stillness holds.'

I think that for (b) to work, there should've been a comma after 'air':
'And all the air, a solemn stillness holds.'

Sarapva · 11 Jul 2007

made of stone said:
You are absolutely correct, and seem to have an uncanny sense of the way English works Sarapva san - touche!

It can't go either way - it's absolutely defined. 'Solemn stillness' is the subject Jimmy san, (if you think about it, 'the air' doesn't take a verb, which should remove any doubt).

Thank you, made of stone! I didn't think I was crazy! This really is an interesting example - your mind has to kind of flip over the the first part of the sentence and then come back to it.

bakaKanadajin · 11 Jul 2007

Supervin said:
The point is whether 'And all the air a solemn stillness holds' should be read:
(a) 'And a solemn stillness holds all the air.' (subject = a solemn stillness)
(b) 'And all the air holds a solemn stillness.' (subject = all the air)
I think bakaKanadajin is saying that for (b) to work, there should've been a proposition like 'in' before 'all the air':
'And in all the air a solemn stillness holds.'
I think that for (b) to work, there should've been a comma after 'air':
'And all the air, a solemn stillness holds.'

yes thanks, that was my point!

At least we all agree its very confusing. Japanese folks trying to understand this stuff but don't quite grasp it: DON'T feel bad, even us native speakers are confused you see?

pugtm · 11 Jul 2007

i hate english for that reason. Out of my 4 languages i know it has the weirdest letter combinations, most confusing grammer, and more exceptions than congress deciding who from their friends doesn't have to pay taxes.

DoctorP · 11 Jul 2007

I think too many people are overthinking this. Every sentence could be moved around to switch the object and the subject. In this instance, air is the subject.

made of stone · 12 Jul 2007

JimmySeal said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the air doesn't take a verb" but word order doesn't tell us a lot here. With this kind of poetic order, it becomes ambiguous, as in

"And if I die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take."
Subject-Object-Verb

Quite right you are, sir, and forgive my last post (all of you) as a tired man expressing his (incorrect) opinion at the end of a long day...

Upon further reflection it is indeed ambiguous, and perhaps that's the very beauty of it?! It's certainly a lovely phrase.

(btw JimmySeal san, with 'take a verb' I was trying to say something about word order that is perhaps just an English teacher thing, possibly a British thing, I don't know. If you search on the net you'll find out more, if you're interested )

made of errors

Sarapva · 12 Jul 2007

This seems to be one of those things that the more you think about it, the less you understand!

Which is the subject?

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

Supervin

先輩

Sarapva

Midnight and Snowflake

bakaKanadajin

先輩

pugtm

Jewish Samurai

DoctorP

先輩

made of stone

後輩

Sarapva

Midnight and Snowflake

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