When to use 'wa' (Hiragana)?

NoSleepInJapan · 11 Jan 2015

Hey forum.

From what I've seen, words like 'Konbanwa', 'Konnichiwa', 'dewa mata' etc... have the Hiragana for ha (は) instead of wa (わ).

When would わ be used?

Thank you.

lanthas · 11 Jan 2015

The only case where は is pronounced as "wa" is when used as the grammatical topic marker particle. In other cases, it's pronounced as "ha". For example, if you wanted to spell out "wakarimashita" in hiragana instead of with kanji, you'd write わかりました, not はかりました (which would be pronounced as "hakarimashita" and be a different verb).

NoSleepInJapan · 11 Jan 2015

lanthas said:
The only case where は is pronounced as "wa" is when used as the grammatical topic marker particle.

What's that supposed to mean?

killerinsidee · 11 Jan 2015

SamuraiWarrior said:
What's that supposed to mean?

It means that は as a particle marking the topic is pronounced "wa", not "ha". Example - 私は18歳です = watashi wa 18sai desu.
The only reason why words like こんにちは and こんばんは have は and are pronounced as "konnichiwa" and "konbanwa", respectively, is because they (apparently) originated from 今日は and 今晩は, i.e., は was used as a particle marking the topic, hence the "wa" pronunciation.

Toritoribe · 12 Jan 2015

SamuraiWarrior said:
When would わ be used?

わ is used for all the rest "wa" other than the topic marker は, as already explained. In other words, the topic marker は is the only exception.

With a few exceptions for sentence particles は, を, and へ (pronounced as wa, o, and e), and a few other arbitrary rules, Japanese, when written in kana, is phonemically orthographic, i.e. there is a one-to-one correspondence between kana characters and sounds

Hiragana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NoSleepInJapan · 12 Jan 2015

I see. So I only use は instead of わ when 'ha' is the topic marker?

What exactly is the topic marker and how do I recognise whether I need to add 'ha' instead of 'wa'?

I'm getting the idea that 'ha' is only used instead of 'wa' under certain circumstances, but I don't understand it. I'm not really good at foreign grammar terms. Still an early learner.

killerinsidee · 12 Jan 2015

I think you're maybe misunderstanding something here. The わ you're thinking about is just a normal katakana, a syllable. On the other hand, the は that you're talking about is a grammatical element. When は is used by itself, i.e., it's not a part of some word, its pronunciation changes to "wa". It is still written as は, not わ. I don't want to complicate things further by explaining the grammar usage of わ, since that would make you even more confused. I suggest you pick up a textbook, like Genki and learn about は. It's one of the first things explained there.

Mike Cash · 12 Jan 2015

+1

Do yourself a tremendous favor and get a textbook.

NoSleepInJapan · 12 Jan 2015

killerinsidee said:
I think you're maybe misunderstanding something here. The わ you're thinking about is just a normal katakana, a syllable. On the other hand, the は that you're talking about is a grammatical element. When は is used by itself, i.e., it's not a part of some word, its pronunciation changes to "wa". It is still written as は, not わ. I don't want to complicate things further by explaining the grammar usage of わ, since that would make you even more confused. I suggest you pick up a textbook, like Genki and learn about は. It's one of the first things explained there.

I think I get where you're coming from. So in a word such has 'hata' (meaning 'flag'), the は is 'ha' because it is a part of the word? If that is true, then 'konnichiwa' is actually 'konnichi wa' (when written in English), meaning that 'Konnichi' is probably already a word and adding the 'ha' (which then becomes wa) makes it 'Good Afternoon'. In a way that makes sense to me because I've seen syllables such as 'wa' or 'no' being used by themself. e.g. 'Watashi wa' or 'Shakugan no Shana'.

So to sum that up; adding 'ha' to an already existing word makes it pronounced as 'wa', but when は is already a part of that word, it's normally pronounced as 'ha'. Is any of that correct?

I'll get a text book eventually, thanks for the advice.

Mike Cash · 12 Jan 2015

The problem is you're learning from crap materials that are teaching you in romaji. Such materials find it easier to just use "wa" which reflects actual pronunciation than to try to explain how/why it is written two different ways in Japanese script.

If you were learning from even mediocre materials intended to help people actually learn Japanese (rather than just fart around with it a little) this would have been one of the very first things explained, as it is unavoidable.

Toritoribe · 12 Jan 2015

SamuraiWarrior said:
What exactly is the topic marker

Topic marker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SamuraiWarrior said:
adding 'ha' to an already existing word makes it pronounced as 'wa'

Not always. For instance, in the following sentence, the first は is read "wa" since this is the topic marker, whereas the second は is read "ha" in spite of being add right after an already existing word ほしゅ[hoshu] since this は is a suffix, not the topic marker.

彼は保守派だ。
かれはほしゅはだ。
Kare wa hoshu-ha da.

NoSleepInJapan · 13 Jan 2015

Mike Cash said:
The problem is you're learning from crap materials that are teaching you in romaji. Such materials find it easier to just use "wa" which reflects actual pronunciation than to try to explain how/why it is written two different ways in Japanese script.

If you were learning from even mediocre materials intended to help people actually learn Japanese (rather than just fart around with it a little) this would have been one of the very first things explained, as it is unavoidable.

I'm only learning the characters and a few words so far. I'm not using any real material for learning sentence structure and grammar. I'll get to that eventually.

Toritoribe said:
Topic marker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not always. For instance, in the following sentence, the first は is read "wa" since this is the topic marker, whereas the second は is read "ha" in spite of being add right after an already existing word ほしゅ[hoshu] since this は is a suffix, not the topic marker.

彼は保守派だ。
かれはほしゅはだ。
Kare wa hoshu-ha da.

I think I'm reaching an understanding here. So a particle is a character (such as 'ha') that is used as a suffix. When 'ha' is a particle, it is pronounce as 'wa'?

Mike Cash · 13 Jan 2015

No, a particle is not a character that is used as a suffix. It is a grammatical marker and there are several. You'll be introduced to them in Lesson 1 of practically anything.

NoSleepInJapan · 13 Jan 2015

Mike Cash said:
No, a particle is not a character that is used as a suffix. It is a grammatical marker and there are several. You'll be introduced to them in Lesson 1 of practically anything.

I see. This is probably best explained in a book, as previously mentioned. I'll probably order one next month, it'll all make more sense then. Thanks.

When to use 'wa' (Hiragana)?

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