Using "で" and "に"

StandAlone2323 · 11 Jul 2007

ok, I know で means "of'" but I've figured out that it isn't used the same way as in English. I literally have no clue how to use this at all, so if someone could offer some insight, that would great.

also, i know that に basically means "at". I know that this has to be used in front of of cetain verbs like います、あります、乗って, etc. but is it only used in front of verbs? because is some of my J-Pop, i can pick out the に and it doesn't sound (or look in the lyrics) like a verb follows.

also, would you just use 言葉 for the word lyrics?I'm just wondering because babble-fish came up with no translation.

JimmySeal · 11 Jul 2007

Better to let a textbook or your encounters with the language tell you what で and に mean than have us just rattle off a list of their many uses.

Lyrics would be kashi (歌詞) or in some cases uta (歌). If you're going to use a dictionary, I recommend you use something other than Babelfish. Jim Breen's site is pretty good.
Jim Breen's Pages Have Moved

Charles Barkley · 11 Jul 2007

歌詞 = lyrics
かし
kashi

Oops, I only read the first line of Jimmy's post...Gomen ne.

Elizabeth · 11 Jul 2007

StandAlone2323 said:
ok, i know で means "of'" but ive figured out that it isn't used the same way as in english. i literally have no clue how to use this at all, so if someone could offer some insight, that would great.
also, i know that に basically means "at". i know that this has to be used in front of of cetain verbs like います、あります、乗って, etc. but is it only used in front of verbs? because is some of my J-Pop, i can pick out the に and it doesn't sound (or look in the lyrics) like a verb follows.
also, would you just use 言葉 for the word lyrics? im just wondering because babble-fish came up with no translation.

に can be used in front of almost anything and doesn't have to come before います or あります。 What it comes after is really important. That is the object it is pointing or referring to (being for, in, at, from...). It's going to take forever to learn from music. Get a textbook. Basically I agree with Jimmyseal.

Supervin · 11 Jul 2007

StandAlone2323 said:
ok, i know で means "of'" ... i literally have no clue how to use this at all, so if someone could offer some insight, that would great.
also, i know that に basically means "at" ...

Well, で and に are main particles and they have quite a large number of different uses. Rather than just assigning one English translation to it, it'd be best to go through new uses steadily as you see them.

The7thSamurai · 11 Jul 2007

What makes you think で means 'of'? These particles have quite a number of uses that any beginner textbook well tell you about. You should be able to find the usages on the Internet too. However, after a certain while, trying to work out why で/に is used for a certain verb becomes so tedious that you end up forgetting about the true meaning and simply learn it as it is. Having a 'just because' attitude will save you quite a bit of hassle.

Elizabeth · 11 Jul 2007

Bucko said:
What makes you think で means 'of'? These particles have quite a number of uses that any beginner textbook well tell you about. You should be able to find the usages on the Internet too. However, after a certain while, trying to work out why で/に is used for a certain verb becomes so tedious that you end up forgetting about the true meaning and simply learn it as it is. Having a 'just because' attitude will save you quite a bit of hassle.

If you understand the core meanings and uses, the logic behind those (few) verbs that 'take' only に will easily click into place. At least, once the right translation is there, that is what happened for me.

All that will be left to pure memorization will be the limited number of set phrases (sore ni, sore de (wa)) etc.

Using "で" and "に"

StandAlone2323

~tanoshii

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

Charles Barkley

TNT Basketball Analyst

Elizabeth

先輩

Supervin

先輩

The7thSamurai

Master of the Universe

Elizabeth

先輩

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