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Shukaku

Grey shifu

Kouhai
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Hi all,

My son is enjoying some Japanese cartoons lately came across this name. Shukaku. What does the Shu mean and how does it change with Kaku?
 
守鶴 is a Japanese word that can be pronounced as Shukaku or Morinji. It means "guardian crane" or "protector crane". It is the name of a tanuki who lived in disguise as a human priest at Morinji, a Buddhist temple in Gunma Prefecture. . It is also the name of one of the nine tailed beasts in Naruto, who is based on the tanuki folklore.

 
Hi there,
One more thing please, Im a martial artist. There is a kata that I perform called Gankaku. Apparently it refers to crane on a rock, how does the Shukaku and Gankaku relate to the word crane?

I understand the word kaku to mean protection of some sort.

Thank you
 
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GAN (岩) = rock (or boulder or cliff)
KAKU (鶴) = crane
 
Welcome aboard! Feel free if you have any more questions, Japanese is full of homonyms; most kanji have several readings depending on the context, and many kanji may share some of these readings, so "kaku" could be the pronunciation of many different characters with different meanings. Here's a quick dictionary search of words that end in "kaku," and you can see each word has very different kanji, with different meanings: *kaku - Jisho.org

You must be a Shotokan practitioner. I know this kata by its original name: Chintō
 
Shotokan practitioner is correct. Although, I do familiarise my self with other styles as I find all very interesting. I was aware of the chinto kata in which Funikoshi changed the name to Gankaku for a more Japanese name.
 
Sorry, but I feel the need to ask. Is this a ChatGPT/BingAI-sourced answer?

I'm just asking because it sounds like one -- and if it is, I think it's important to make that clear (even if this particular answer is accurate).
 
Sorry, but I feel the need to ask. Is this a ChatGPT/BingAI-sourced answer?

I'm just asking because it sounds like one -- and if it is, I think it's important to make that clear (even if this particular answer is accurate).
I don't remember exactly. I think I used chatGPT as well as traditional web searches. I may have kept chatGPT's phrasing because as you know it's pretty good at that, even if what it spits out is B.S. Regardless, surely in all your years you must have figured out by now that you can't police the Internet.
 
Sorry, I didn't realize that the post was months old.

Regardless, surely in all your years you must have figured out by now that you can't police the Internet.

I'm not trying to "police the internet".

I just remembered you once expressing the sentiment that you agreed with me about the importance of being transparent when quoting ChatGPT in a response (rather than just passing it off as one's own words). I -- mistakenly; again, my apologies -- assumed the post was more recent and wondered if you had changed your mind.

But I suppose it really doesn't matter -- it's already clear that a vast majority of people don't really care if machine-produced gunk subsumes genuine human discourse and creativity, so I know I'm fighting a losing battle.

One of these days I'll stop embarrassing myself and actually sign off this place for good, so you can just ignore me in the future. Sorry for the pathetic display (again).
 
If this place actually helps your mental state I hope you stick around. I just worry it does more harm than good.

Unless you want to make it your life's work I don't think it's possible to battle against the development of AI technology.
All you can do is do your part, whatever that part may be.
It reminds me... A friend of mine who's lived in Japan for about 40 years now always carried/carries his own chopsticks because he thinks 割りばし are wasteful.
I wonder if he's even saved a whole tree by now.
 
When I consider leaving this place (or the internet) one way or the other, those are always the concerns that enter my head. Of course I've considered whether this place is better or worse for me -- when I feel (in the moment), it's the former, I come here. When I feel (in the moment) it's the latter, I don't.

I'm not "battling" against the development of AI technology, because I have neither the inclination nor the means or wherewithal to do so. What I do feel is a need to express feelings that I truly believe in rather than just going along with whatever the majority believes in. 90-99% of the people think ChatGPT and all the developments in machine learning and AI are peachy and just want to marvel at how great all this stuff is. I see a lot of potential for human discourse to be diminished by all this -- and, to be honest, genuinely despise how this forum seems to have become incredibly AI-centric -- and feel the need to at least offer a differing opinion.

It reminds me... A friend of mine who's lived in Japan for about 40 years now always carried/carries his own chopsticks because he thinks 割りばし are wasteful. I wonder if he's even saved a whole tree by now.
I literally have no idea what you're trying to say by this, but quite frankly, the implications are disgusting.

Are you trying to suggest that offering any opinion or view that is not pro-AI is somehow equivalent to being some kind of meaninglless, just-for-show "tree hugger" who is just being self-righteous while making absolutely zero difference in society?

If so, I really, really don't appreciate that kind of (not-so?) subtle dig. If that wasn't your intention, I'd like you to clarify this, because otherwise it just seems like some kind of cheap shot aimed at both me and your friend -- who I don't know, but I suspect has his reasons for doing what he does and deserves better than being made fun of behind his back -- that's being offered for no particular reason. What with you being this forum's most vocal proponent(?) of DeepL, ChatGPT, etc. etc. (no surprise given your position as an IT guy), I'd hope you could realize you're already on the "winning team" and could, at the very least, be considerate enough to avoid "punching down" and making fun of people like me who have their own reasons, maybe, for holding a minority viewpoint.

(I also found your cheap shot at my age above rather curious given that I'm pretty sure I'm younger than you. I might not be a huge AI fan, but I'm hardly some Luddite or decrepit old geezer who is incapable of understanding technology.)

But hey, if you just want to have fun sitting aboard the winning horse as you coast to victory while laughing at those of us who aren't as enlightened as you and don't worship at the altar of ChatGPT and BingAI, I guess that's your prerogative. You can take comfort in the fact that you'll be raking in the dough as an IT exec while writers and artists and musicians whose lives and livelihoods are ruined by AI and human beings who don't know any better become more and more content to accept machine-produced bullshit as a substitute for human interaction can only sit back and hug trees like the pathetic losers they are.
 
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That's the impression I got.
Actually >90% of the people do NOT think AI is Peachy. According to this you're in the majority (if you don't count the people who are not aware or have no opinion). I'd be interested to see what the survey results would be now as the topic and general awareness has exploded since February.

No, I'm not trying to say that at all. My tree-saving friend is not at all self-righteous and I consider him one of my best friends.
I'm saying that what he is doing is not really doing much for the greater good but if it makes him feel good I'm happy for him and I respect him for it.
Just like I respect people who go running regularly. It's not a habit I could easily form. I'm certainly not going to belittle somebody for doing something helpful.

I don't consider myself a proponent of AI. It's a new toy that I've been playing with. Just like when GIFs first came out and we had fun playing with those.
And I choose to focus on what the tool can do well. Not what it can't do or isn't designed to do. As noted in the link above, you're actually not a minority at all.
If it looked like I was condescending or making fun of anybody, that was not my intent at all.

(I also found your cheap shot at my age above rather curious given that I'm pretty sure I'm younger than you. I might not be a huge AI fan, but I'm hardly some Luddite or decrepit old geezer who is incapable of understanding technology.)
I'm sorry you took it that way. It took me a minute to even figure out what you were talking about. My only point was that you've been on the Internet long enough to know how it works. Not that you're "old" or a luddite or anything like that. Quite the contrary. Which is why I was puzzled you'd even bothered to call me out for something I wrote months ago.

This is more or less the same cycle we've seen along the arc of history starting with the invention of the written word itself. Or, more recently, the advent of home computers and the digital divide that ensued. Clearly people will be disrupted. I'm not happy or laughing about it. It's just something we all need to deal with. In my case I probably won't have to worry about it but since it will affect my kids I do have to worry about it.

I'm not an IT exec by the way. Or executive either. And I haven't done direct I.T. work for about 20 years. I do work in technology though.
 
Thank you for your cordial reply. I know I've engaged you in a testy sort of fashion from time to time (I blame that on my recent mental/emotional state, which is not good) but overall I respect you and I'm sorry if sometimes my words come off as overly hostile. I do sometimes feel like you're a bit flippant at times, and I feel the need to call that out, but that might partially just be my own overactive imagination.

That's interesting, so thank you for the link. From my side, I honestly see more people just blindly using and marveling at ChatGPT than people questioning it for legitimate reasons, but perhaps maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. In any event, the money and power is overwhelmingly behind AI and overwhelmingly not behind the average people who are suffering from AI, so....well -- to borrow the words of my favorite author -- I'll still perceive this as a battle between the overpowering wall (the former) vs. the egg that dares to smash itself against the wall (the latter), and will take the latter's side, even if it makes me come off as a bit silly at times.



Thank you for the clarification. Like you talked about the impression you got from my words, the impression I got from your "I wonder if he's even saved one tree" struck me as kind of saying "he's done this for 40 years...what has that ever amounted to, really."

If you were trying to genuinely show respect for his commitment and not belittle it by making it seem insignificant, you might want to choose your words or phrasing a bit more carefully. I'm not sure your friend would feel particularly respected or honored by reading that part of your post.

In that case, my (genuine) apologies. I have to admit, I do kind of see you as a "pro-AI, damn everything else" person, just because you don't seem to express much doubt or qualifcation when quoting DeepL, Bing, etc.

I remember one time when quoted a DeepL translation to answer a very thought-provoking post by a person (KarenK) whose Japanese ability is quite possibly (not a judgment of your character, just a third-party observation) better than your own, and I found that kind of off-putting.

Again, I apologize for replying to an old post of yours. I was in a semi-lucid state (all too common for me these days, unfortunately) and didn't look at the date. I thought it was recent, and I thought you were going back on your previous comment that you would clarify when you were AI-sourcing your replies (which I don't care for) and when you were responding with your own knowledge (which I respect a lot...your posts regarding oldschool neighborhood life in Japan are one of the few things here I can relate to anymore).

P.S. Just because I argue against something, it doesn't mean I don't understand the perspective of people who argue for it. I just...simply...don't...agree.

Well, unfortunately, people don't only use tools for the things they are intended by the (powerful, wealthy) people behind them intend them to be used for. It would be great if guns were only used to shoot and kill bad people, but unfortunately, a lot of good people die because America has decided that guns are peachy-keen.

You can think that AI is just a nice toy, but when people are losing their livelihoods because powerful people would rather make a 190% profit instead of a 170% profit by firing all their writers and instead hiring half-rate "editors" to rewrite AI-written word salad garbage, that acutally matters to some people, including people who might not even realize it.

I'm glad you're at least aware that the stuff you consider a "toy" might be "disruptive" in the sense of actually ending lives and careers of the future generation. I'd like to think I'm at least aware of the point you're making, even though I find it quite frankly a bit scary.


I'm not an IT exec by the way. Or executive either. And I haven't done direct I.T. work for about 20 years. I do work in technology though.


Thank you for clarifying this. I apologize for having misrepresented you.

Despite my apparent anti-technology views, I also work in an IT-adjacent position, though in a more "soft skill" sector of the tech world, which is perhaps why I'm a bit sensitive to the AI/machine learning push.
 
I think we have to look at the big picture. A.I. is just the latest thing. It's a big thing but not necessarily bigger than the advent of computing or other major events such as industrial farming. I guess that's easy for me to say since I'm not directly affected by this latest thing and it actually is useful to me. When my mother graduated from the School of Commerce, her main skills were shorthand and typing. Her shorthand was obsolete almost immediately as the dictaphone became commonplace. Luckily the typewriter stuck around. Here are some other examples of careers that were disrupted by technology, compliments of Bing. Again, my whole point is that all of this fits into a bigger picture. And there's nothing you or I can do to change the arc of history we are witnessing. All we can do is adapt. Yes I realize many won't be able to do so and the change will lead to disruption and real trauma (as it has for all of human history).

==
That's a very broad question. Technology has disrupted many careers in the past 100 years, and it's hard to rank them by the degree of disruption. However, based on the web search results¹²³⁴, here are some examples of careers that have been disrupted by technology, in no particular order:

  • Travel agent: This job involved helping customers plan and book their travel arrangements, such as flights, hotels, tours, etc. Technology has made this job obsolete by allowing customers to access travel websites and apps that offer the same services at lower costs and with more convenience.
  • Tax accountant: This job involved preparing and filing tax returns for individuals and businesses. Technology has reduced the demand for this job by providing tax software and online platforms that can automate the process and offer guidance and support.
  • Print journalist: This job involved writing and editing news articles for newspapers and magazines. Technology has disrupted this job by shifting the media landscape to digital platforms, such as websites, blogs, podcasts, etc. that offer more variety, interactivity, and timeliness. Print media has also faced declining revenues and readership due to online advertising and social media.
  • Translator: This job involved converting written or spoken text from one language to another. Technology has challenged this job by developing natural language processing tools and applications that can perform translation tasks with increasing accuracy and speed.
  • Office assistant: This job involved performing administrative and clerical tasks, such as answering phones, scheduling appointments, filing documents, etc. Technology has replaced this job by providing software and devices that can handle these tasks more efficiently and reliably.
  • Bookseller: This job involved selling books to customers in physical stores. Technology has endangered this job by enabling online retailers, such as Amazon, to offer a wider selection of books at lower prices and with faster delivery. Technology has also popularized e-books and e-readers that reduce the need for physical books.
  • Financial advisor: This job involved providing financial advice and guidance to clients on topics such as investments, retirement, insurance, etc. Technology has threatened this job by creating fintech solutions, such as robo-advisors, that can offer personalized and automated financial services at lower costs and with more transparency.
  • Recruiter: This job involved finding and hiring qualified candidates for open positions in an organization. Technology has disrupted this job by creating online platforms, such as LinkedIn, that connect employers and job seekers directly. Technology has also enabled AI tools that can screen resumes, conduct interviews, and assess skills more objectively and efficiently.
  • AI writer: This job involved creating written content using artificial intelligence tools, such as ChatGPT or Google's Bard. Technology has eliminated this job by advancing AI itself, which made human writers redundant or less competitive.
  • Software developer: This job involved designing, developing, testing, and maintaining software applications and systems. Technology has changed this job by introducing new software development methodologies, such as Agile and DevOps, that require more collaboration, automation, and continuous delivery.

Some other careers that have been disrupted by technology are:

  • Switchboard operator
  • Typist
  • Telephone operator
  • Bank teller
  • Cashier
  • Librarian
  • Photographer
  • Film projectionist
  • Factory worker
  • Telemarketer

Source: Conversation with Bing, 6/13/2023
(1) 20 Industries Threatened by Tech Disruption - Investopedia. App-pocalypse! 20 Industries Disrupted By New Tech.
(2) 10 most 'disruptive' information technology jobs in the year ahead. 10 most 'disruptive' information technology jobs in the year ahead.
(3) Which Jobs Will AI Replace? These 4 Industries Will Be Heavily ... - Forbes. Which Jobs Will AI Replace? These 4 Industries Will Be Heavily Impacted.
(4) The Future of Work: The Impact of Disruptive Technologies on Jobs and .... The Future of Work: The Impact of Disruptive Technologies on Jobs and Skills.
===
And onto the 19th century or older.

That's an interesting question. Based on my web searches, I found some possible careers that were disrupted by technology in the 19th century. Here is a list in no particular order:

  • Chimney sweep: A person who cleaned chimneys by climbing inside them with a special broom⁴.
  • Woodcutter: A person who cut wood by hand or by using a lath machine⁴.
  • Knocker-up: A person who woke up workers by knocking on their windows or doors⁴.
  • Midwife: A person who assisted women in childbirth, often without formal training⁴.
  • Daguerreotypist: A person who took photographs using the daguerreotype process, which involved exposing a silver-coated copper plate to mercury vapor⁴.
  • Factory reader: A person who read books aloud to factory workers to entertain them and prevent boredom⁴.
  • Alnager: A town official who examined the quality of woollen goods and stamped them with a seal of approval⁵.
  • Wagonmaker: A person who made and repaired wagons, carts, and carriages⁶.
  • Stonemason: A person who cut and shaped stone for building purposes⁶.
  • Cobbler: A person who repaired shoes and boots⁶.
  • Cooper: A person who made and repaired wooden barrels, casks, and tubs⁷.
  • Drayman: A person who drove a dray, a low cart without sides, for delivering goods⁷.
  • Sawyer: A person who sawed wood into planks or boards⁷.
  • Huckster: A person who sold small items, such as fruits, vegetables, or fish, from a stall or a cart⁷.
  • Galloon maker: A person who made galloon, a narrow woven fabric used for trimming garments or furniture⁷.
  • Gimp maker: A person who made gimp, a twisted silk or cotton cord used for embroidery or upholstery⁷.
  • Tassel maker: A person who made tassels, ornamental tufts of threads or cords attached to a knob or a loop⁷.
  • Nail maker: A person who made nails by hand from iron rods⁷.
  • Flax dresser: A person who prepared flax fibers for spinning by soaking, drying, and combing them⁷.
  • Trunk maker: A person who made trunks, large wooden or metal boxes for storing or transporting clothes or other items⁷.
  • Valise maker: A person who made valises, small traveling bags or cases⁷.
  • Carpet-bag maker: A person who made carpet-bags, traveling bags made of carpet fabric⁷.
  • Lamplighter: A person who lit and extinguished street lamps at dusk and dawn⁸.
  • Ice cutter: A person who cut blocks of ice from frozen lakes or rivers for refrigeration purposes⁸.
  • Milkman: A person who delivered milk to customers' homes in glass bottles⁸.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 6/13/2023
(1) People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent. People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent.
(2) Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to .... Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to z on one page.
(3) Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated] - Working the Flame. Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated].
(4) 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today. 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today.
(5) 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women. 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women.


Some more careers that were disrupted by technology in the 19th century are:

  • Switchboard operator: A person who connected telephone calls by manually plugging wires into a switchboard⁸.
  • Telegraph operator: A person who sent and received messages using Morse code and a telegraph machine⁸.
  • Typewriter: A person who typed documents using a typewriter, a machine that printed letters on paper by pressing keys⁸.
  • Pinsetter: A person who set up bowling pins by hand after each roll of the ball⁸.
  • Elevator operator: A person who operated an elevator by manually moving a lever or a wheel to control its speed and direction⁸.
  • Town crier: A person who announced news and events by shouting in public places or ringing a bell⁹.
  • Herald: A person who carried messages or proclaimed announcements on behalf of a ruler or a nobleman⁹.
  • Scribe: A person who copied documents by hand, usually using a quill pen and ink⁹.
  • Illuminator: A person who decorated manuscripts with gold, silver, or colored paint, often adding elaborate initials, borders, or illustrations⁹.
  • Bookbinder: A person who bound books by sewing together pages and attaching covers of leather, cloth, or paper⁹.
  • Stationer: A person who sold paper, pens, ink, and other writing materials⁹.
  • Printer: A person who printed books, newspapers, or other documents using a printing press, a machine that transferred ink from movable type to paper⁹.
  • Papermaker: A person who made paper from rags, wood pulp, or other materials⁹.
  • Lithographer: A person who printed images or text using a lithograph, a process that involved drawing on a stone or a metal plate with a greasy substance and then transferring it to paper with ink⁹.
  • Engraver: A person who cut designs or letters into metal, wood, or other materials for printing or decoration purposes⁹.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 6/13/2023
(1) People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent. People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent.
(2) Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to .... Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to z on one page.
(3) Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated] - Working the Flame. Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated].
(4) 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today. 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today.
(5) 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women. 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women.
(6) People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent. People's Jobs in the 1800s | Bizfluent.
(7) Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to .... Victorian Occupations - Job Titles in the 19th Century - Full list a to z on one page.
(8) Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated] - Working the Flame. Most Common Jobs in the 1800s [Updated].
(9) 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today. 10 Common 19th Century Occupations That You're Not Likely to See Today.
(10) 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women. 7 Suitable Career Options for 19th Century Women.
(11) What can history teach us about technology and jobs?. What can history teach us about technology and jobs?.
(12) What the Industrial Revolution really tells us about the future of .... What the Industrial Revolution really tells us about the future of automation and work.
(13) Industrial Revolution and Technology - National Geographic Society. Industrial Revolution and Technology.
 
Thanks for the response. Please excuse me if I only skim the vast majority of your AI-sourced wall of text (I'm not sure if you were intentionally trying to be ironic, but if so....well played) as that wasn't really my point.

With all due respect, the job of a switchboard operator becoming obsolete because the technology simply evolves beyond the point where switchboards are physically necessary, and the job of "writer" or "artist" becoming obsolete because some rich executive decides they can just ask ChatGPT to write an article or paint a picture and hire someone at a minimum to touch it up (or, if they really don't care about quality, not even do that) are not -- in my humble opinion -- anywhere near the same thing. The former is a natural product of technological advancement. The latter is a moral/ethical issue.

(Yes, I am aware that truly skilled/respected authors, artists, etc. are not in danger because there are people willing to pay a premium for their unique "voice" or output. The point stands.)

Machine learning technology is not going anywhere, but I believe that society and the human race has a vested interest in taking measures to ensure that the technology it is used in a genuinely productive, meaningful, and non-dehumanizing way. There is a reason certain governments/organizations/etc. are placing restrictions on its use (or considering doing so). There is a reason many people -- even people involved with the development of AI -- have genuine and deep-rooted concerns about whether it will be a net positive for humanity and not gravely destructive. You seem to be of the mindset that literally any repercussions are inevitable and all we can do is throw up our hands and say "Welp, that's technology for ya.", and I don't agree.

(As an example, I genuinely don't like the effect ChatGPT has had on this board, and I think this place would have been / could still be a lot better off if restrictions were placed on its use rather than encouraging it via Jay Bot.)
 
You seem to be of the mindset that literally any repercussions are inevitable and all we can do is throw up our hands and say "Welp, that's technology for ya.", and I don't agree.
I'm of the mindset that there's not much point in stressing about things you cannot control. That doesn't mean I'm advocating throwing up my hands or burying my head in the sand. For example, I can't control the flood of scammers, phishers, con artists that technology has enabled. But I can control my behavior. I can inform myself about the attack vectors. I can try to protect myself with anti-malware software, etc. There are white-hat security technologists who do try to keep the rest of us safe and spend much of their time on this issue. It's the same with A.I. We can make ourselves aware of it's uses and limitations while the fights about regulation go on.

The moral/ethical issue you bring up has to do with how the technology is used. The impression I got in these threads, however, is that you've been focusing your vitriol on the technology itself as well as a little bit for those who use it. Bringing AI responses into threads isn't going to take anybody's job away. It just saves me a heck of a lot of time from Googling. And I don't even do it all that often. When I do it, it's typically for drive by posters. Why should I spend more time composing a response than they did in dropping a question? If there was a large community here ready to respond I wouldn't bother. But there's not a bunch of people here vying to answer every question that comes in any more.

As for this board, JayBot is segregated in its own forum and not even integrated. So I don't really agree with your characterization of what's going on here.
 
It reminds me... A friend of mine who's lived in Japan for about 40 years now always carried/carries his own chopsticks because he thinks 割りばし are wasteful.
I wonder if he's even saved a whole tree by now.
Individual actions add up. That is how so many problems happen. Your friend is trying to be less of a problem in deforestation for no reason. I have often considered carrying those. They have nice little carrying cases etc. Your friend is to be admired.
 

I couldn't agree more. The same applies to plastic bags at grocery stores, plastic cutlery at combinis, PET bottles, etc, etc. I was excited to see Starbucks using paper straws here in Japan.
 
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