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Rudeness

Strange English

Alexriversan, your way of speaking is like nothing I've ever known, and I've studied English extensively.

My husband also writes programs and does code stuff and he talks everyday English. I don't think "logical" is the word for that way of speaking...
 
I was gonna start a new thread, but since this has developed into a general discussion about manners, perhaps here is as good a place as any.

One thing has always puzzled me about Japan - namely in a country where something as simple as pointing with your finger can be considered impolite, how can this be be reconciled with the fact that the average person doesn't even bother to look behind them when walking through an entrance and will quite happily let a heavy door swing shut in your face.

It's not so much that I think the former is silly (every country its own quirky manners), it's that fact that I can't understand how the latter could NOT be considered rude.
 
Yes, that would seem strange indeed. Not about Japan, but about Korea. My brother after spending many years abroad, came back and found himself embarassed by kindly looking behind and holding the door for the lady behind him. (Now this was about 10 years back) She stared at him with such suspicion and disdain that he almost hated himself for having done the courtesy.

He probably would have wished to have followed the old Korean way of rudely passing through and slamming the door behind him so the lady could not get annoyed. I guess once the bodily reflexes are tuned to the rough looking out for oneself and oneself only in "between door" situations, consideration for the person behind you could kind of "messes up" the delicate timing and the high-level of adrenalin -- disrupting coordination, and causing delays and unpleasantness for having to be nice and all !
 
Kara_Nari's survival guide to rudeness... any country.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH... The elite 'Ajumma and Halmoni' squad. When I first arrived in Korea, I thought it was only the women in the supermarket, on the street, and waiting for subways that I thought were rude. Time has passed, and when I was out in Hong Dae on the weekend, I realised that it is increasingly becoming young womens perrogative to be just as rude as their predecesors (sp). I have given up on kindly smiling and allowing it to happen.

*1*Just push any rude people regardless of age back where they were originally.

*2*If they push in front of you at the supermarket counter, just throw their things on the ground.

*3*If they run over your toes with their trolley, seemingly on purpose because there does happen to be plenty of space in the aisle on either side.... wait until they are leaning over the frozen section, prepare a runway and take off with target insight, ensuring that you can get them right to the other side of the freezer.

*4*If they are pushy in the subway just stand in the doorway, sidestepping so they cant get in, and wait until the door closes, and they are left standing there bewildered.

*5* For those horrible women who think its acceptable to barge upto the counter whilst other customers are waiting, regardless of the shop, or even if the shop keeper/assistant is obviously busy.... well just give them the nastiest look, take her by the shoulders, and march her to the back of the line... better yet, march her to the door, open it and push her out, locking the door behind you, so she cant be a nusience again.

*6* As for the problem of when you go to a shop expecting that unknown word 'service' and the assistant is blabbing on the phone or to her best friend, kindly separate the assistant from the phone or friend, by throwing either or out the door until you have gotten what you were there for, then as you leave, just kick the offending 'article' back into the store.

*7* Bad service in a restaurant? Throw your leftovers against the wall, or perhaps towards any of the rude customers that happened to assist in spoiling your appetite. March around outside protesting. If its a fast food restaurant, or somewhere you are supposed to clear your plates from the table, do so, but take your dirty plates right up to the counter, not just to the rubbish bin.

*8* If all these fail, just grin and bear it, lifes not really that bad. Rudeness comes and goes, we arent all angels at the best of times Im sure...
 
"obatarian" has always been my favorite word in Japanese. It just says it all ;-)
 
Yes, its so fitting in so many ways.
I was going to elaborate.. but I might get my butt kicked, so I will just chuckle....
 
is it true that its polite to sit with your legs crossed in Japan?
 
Not if you were one of the high school girls sat opposite me on the subway this evening. I didn't feel the need to object though. ;-)
 
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Hmm, this is rather comlicated than I had thought; so does that mean it's okay to sit with one's legs crossed for teenagers who's graduated high school, but it isn't polite to do so for a high school girl :?

And also is it considered impolite for people to ogle at the said crossed legs or is it considered complimentary to do so :?
 
Lexico: Big hint.....S K I R T S
 
Silverpoint said:
"obatarian" has always been my favorite word in Japanese. It just says it all ;-)
Click to expand...

Have you read the "Obatarian" comic series? They're hilarious.
 
I haven't, but I will undoubtedly seek them out. Sounds like my kind of humor.
 


god, these are some very helpful tips, thank you.
 
geno said:
god, these are some very helpful tips, thank you.
Click to expand...

Not really - be warned.

I acted upon three of them today.

I have a black eye, a seriously painful groin injury ... and my case comes up on Thursday .......!

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?
 
lexico said:
Hmm, this is rather comlicated than I had thought; so does that mean it's okay to sit with one's legs crossed for teenagers who's graduated high school, but it isn't polite to do so for a high school girl :?
Click to expand...

I would say that it depended upon the High School girl!


lexico said:
And also is it considered impolite for people to ogle at the said crossed legs or is it considered complimentary to do so :?
Click to expand...

Kore Wa ... if my experience tells me well - staring at the outside of the thigh can frequently be considered a compliment, often rewarded with a sweet and sheepish smile.

Conversely ... stare at the inside of the thigh .... and ...

......I have another black eye, a seriously painful groin injury ... and my case comes up on Friday .......!

ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?
 
Im interested as to which of the three you acted on
Haha, I hate to admit it, but I think I may slowly be turning into one of these horrid women. I even helped out a guy fresh from NZ, by telling him to just 'push push push, they aint gonna let you in buddy, just bite your tongue and get them outta your way' he looked a bit shocked, but realised after being careful about accidentaly brushing past someone, and they didnt scowl at him, that it was indeed ok, to run people out of your way.
 
Ok, one rude thing happened to me the other night:

I had a big craving for a glass of red wine and pasta, and so I went to a restaurant I know near by, by myself. The staff of the place were really friendly, and the bartender tried his best to talk to me, a few words japanese, a few words english. Then some words came up, which i couldnt understand in japanese, and he couldnt understand them in english. His friends, 2 (japanese) girls, were sitting a little more far away on the counter. He asked from his friends in japanese "But <namehere>-San, you can speak english, right?" .. the girls face became frozen, she looked at me from head to toe tip, and with an angry face twisted her head and said "No.".. I felt quite horrible on that moment, like scum she would like to get rid off..
Well, luckily, my night was still wonderful, thanks to everyone else at the restaurant. Everyone were extremely sweet to me, tried to had a conversation with me, made me some really oissshiii pasta etc.
So, maybe 5% of the people can really be rude sometimes, and hurt your feelings (the girl did), but the rest are just..golden.
 
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I had an experience once when I was fairly new to Japan where a bartender poured me Happoshu and tried to charge me full beer rate for it on the assumption that either I couldn't taste the difference or I couldn't read the kanji on the beer pump (it was a counter service bar). Hasn't happened since though.

Actually another thing I've noticed about Japanese restaurant/bar service is that they're not nearly as good at compensating mistakes (probably because the Japanese so rarely kick up a fuss). If I went to a restaurant back home and had lousy service, cold food or some other problem, I'd pretty much take it as read that the manager would offer me some free drinks or a bottle of wine on the house by way of apology. On most occasions when this happened in London, there would be no charge for the meal and perhaps even some kind of offer of a free meal on my next visit.

But most times when I've had bad service in Japan, I've received numerous quaking apologies from a variety of staff, but am still expected to pay the full tab on the way out, with no compensation for a ruined evening. A couple of times I've just walked past the staff and out of the door because I've had a bill shoved in my face and have refused to pay (this usually is followed by going back inside to drag out some horrified looking Japanese co-worker or friend who is trying to cover the whole cost of the meal).
 
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