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Rudeness

jamosaka said:
Worse than the Americans? Surely not that bad.

As an American, I know how bad we can be -- I played 'Spot the American' at a cafe in Munich once, and it was pretty easy: Look for the fat person in jeans who can't speak German. On the flip side, every time I have seen a foreigner come to the U.S., they have been treated well, things were explained when they didn't understand something, and if said foreigner was doing something rude, it was usually either tolerated (for minor things), or they were informed about it.

My experience in Japan has been the exact opposite. Every time I have made a mistake, I get a slight smile and a nod, if that. I apparently solidly ignored my ex-girlfriend's grandmother (unintentionally; I had no idea she wanted to talk to me) for three days, and four days after she left someone finally brought things to my attention. If somebody had even *mentioned* things, rather than letting things slip, I would more than happily have chatted with her -- in fact, I thought I was bothering her because she was so quiet. As is, she's now furious with me, and I'm stuck in the awkward position of having to apologize without having really done anything wrong.

Score one for the Americans here. We at least tell people when they do something wrong.
 
The U.S. is a very big country with varying attitudes, and depending on where one resides the "American" experience can often be very enriching. However, growing up in the Midwest, my Asian friends and I've heard everything from "Go back to your country!" to "Learn to speak the language!" (and those were the nicer things). I think what's at play here is the differing cultural signals. I've been in numerous situations like the one you've described, but as I've learned from my friends here, the Japanese expect that you (living in their land) understand their native cultural signals. It is not their responsibility to change their ways of communicating for your benefit. In the eyes of most (not all) Japanese, foreigners have a responsibility to understand and adapt to the native ways. The part about not telling you directly about what you were doing wrong partly stems from the Japanese aversion to confrontation as well as their way of letting you to figure out your own mistakes. It's a bit contrary to the general American way of communicating.
 
Matadon said:
We at least tell people when they do something wrong.
Considering behaviour as 'wrong' because it differs from what is acceptable in your culture doesn't demonstrate a huge amount of respect in my view.

There are plenty of people in both America and Japan (as elsewhere in the world) who are fairly ignorant about outside cultures, but lack of knowledge and lack of respect are two different things.

People in Japan in my experience are always interested in, and eager to question foreigners about their culture. Americans, I've found, are more interested in explaining how great their culture is. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I just think they're more focussed on themselves as a nation than the Japanese.
 
When I was in the States I found most Americans to be polite and helpful. There was just a few that stared at me because of my accent and one that was downright rude, New York subway worker. I only asked her for directions and she was very snappy and never actually answered my question. I finally asked one of the many bums down there and he was very helpful. On the other hand I have seen some very rude American tourists. One in particular at Auschwitz. He wanted to know whether a video could be played 'back home'. This consisted of him shouting slowly in English, with the occassional remark to his wife that 'They should learn English if they are working here'. I was embaressed, and I'm not American!
My Japanese teacher was always saying that the Japanese can be very impolite when asking personal questions and can be very direct.
 
jamosaka said:
Considering behaviour as 'wrong' because it differs from what is acceptable in your culture doesn't demonstrate a huge amount of respect in my view.

Oh, so I should be allowed to stick my chopsticks straight up in my rice, wear shoes indoors, and talk on my phone while on the train when I'm in Japan because the "japanese don't demonstrate respect" by correcting my "wrong" behaviour?

The point is that every country has cultural norms, and when a foreigner goes to that country, it is pretty bloody reasonable to expect that said foreigner is going to make mistakes. The American attitude towards these mistakes is, by and large, to inform the person that they are being an asshat, thereby allowing said person to better fit in. The Japanese attitude seems to be to just allow people to just continue being an asshat, followed by getting angry at said asshat for not knowing what proper behaviour is.

Catch-22.

...I just think they're more focussed on themselves as a nation than the Japanese.

I can't be the only person who finds this ironic.
 

What an ***. A good chunk of my mother's family was used as heater fuel at Auschwicz, but I still studied German for about four years before actually going to the country.

I haven't been asked any 'personal' questions yet, but I'm still in Tokyo; I'm anticipating a different response as I move south, and I admit the stares from the kids are cute. That, and my friend and I have taken to handing nodoame to people who are coughing and/or wearing masks, while saying 'O daiji ni...'. It may be a little strange, but we've made a lot of people, many of them older, smile from that little gesture.
 
I'll tell you what's rude.

Rude is when you are the only American(who only knows a few Japanese words) in a group of 4 people at your own house and you can't understand a word that the 3 Japanese people are saying for a solid two hours. No one bothers to stop and explain what is being said, and then you're blamed for two of them leaving because you make a "mad face". That is rude.

I learned my lesson.
 
This thread is very informative! Some of these I knew, others came as a surprise to me. Business card etiquette is very interesting. Thanks for the info .
 
Matadon said:
she's now furious with me, and I'm stuck in the awkward position of having to apologize without having really done anything wrong.

I'm guessing you must be single. A married man would be so used to that he wouldn't even think it worth mentioning.
 
mikecash said:
I'm guessing you must be single. A married man would be so used to that he wouldn't even think it worth mentioning.

Ouch! :box:
 
That's because we Americans send all of our really obnoxious people abroad on vacation. Most of the good-mannered Americans either stay in the host country for a while and learn its customs, or vacation here in America.
 
Shas said:
- do not sneeze in public
- do not blow your nose in public
- do not point with your finger
- do not walk while eating (and vice versa )
- do not point your chopsticks at people

what?!?!?! that's STUPID!!!
 
I take it the in-laws visit is a bit tense.
 
Oh no...not the in-laws.

This was about 7 years ago, not long after I was married.

It was a rude awakening...pun intended...
 
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SharkLover said:
what?!?!?! that's STUPID!!!

I've heard those all before and my friends from Japan have also reemphasized them to me.
 
Shas said:
- do not sneeze in public
- do not blow your nose in public
- do not point with your finger
- do not walk while eating (and vice versa )
- do not point your chopsticks at people

Sneezing and blowing your nose are facts of life and people do it all the time. The suggestion that you can't do it in public is just an inaccurate view, regardless of what you read in guidebooks. It is however advisable not to blow your nose in a place where you are in close proximity to other people (e.g. on a crowded subway train or in an elevator).

Likewise, walking while eating is not so much a social taboo any more, especially now that western fast food outlets are so common.

Some of these observations are really getting out-of-date now.
 
It doesn't matter how out-of-date they get. So long as those old chestnuts are still printed up in books and so long as people take them at face value we can look forward to having them trotted out periodically.
 
That was exactly my point. These things are often not based in fact, or at least are not representative of modern Japan, but many people still report them and cling onto them like they are enshrined in law.
 
marcus314 said:
I do not know if this is invented by Japanese.

When you take off your shoe in a tatami room, the forward side of the shoe must point AWAY from the room for showing respect....

Again can someone confirm this??

^_^

You probably don't need to worry about turning around your shoes unless you are visiting someone for the first time and want to make a good impression.

I would say that actually the greater sign of respect is the person who comes and turns around your shoes for you. This is a sign of respect to you, the person who took off the shoes. This shoe-rearranging activity is always done after you've left the area, so when you are ready to leave, you notice the shoes have been mysteriously turned around.
 
A bit of chopsticks etiquette (not necessary unless you really want to make an impression). If eating a shared meal (e.g. yakiniku) any time you want to place food into or remove food from the center (be it a grill, a dish or whatever), turn the chopsticks and use the 'wrong end'. You shouldn't use the 'eating end' to touch food which may be eaten by other people. I used to do this a little when I first came to Japan and it always gets noticed.

Actually nowadays I still do it, although for different reasons, especially when putting food onto the yakiniku grill. Coming from England, I lived for many years in a country where (let's face it) our meat hardly has a great reputation for being disease free. Therefore I've never felt comfortable handing raw meat such as chicken and beef with the same end of the chopsticks that I'm eating from. More for hygeine reasons than anything else. Japanese meat is pretty safe by all accounts, but sometimes you can't shake off a lifetime of conditioning.
 
Business cards and Japanese business etiquette in general

lonesoullost3 said:
This thread is very informative! Some of these I knew, others came as a surprise to me. Business card etiquette is very interesting. Thanks for the info .

I've decided to write some more on business card etiquette and etiquette of meetings in general:

-1. Before the meeting, make sure you have enough name cards for everyone expected to attend the meeting. Be sure they are clean and not damaged. Put the cards into a "meishi-ire" (name card holder) - like a little tiny wallet for name cards, usually made out of leather or other nice material.
0. Accept the card from the highest ranking person in the meeting first and work your way down the ladder. Likewise, allow your boss to offer his card first and then offer yours when your pecking order turn comes. Offer your card with the Japanese language side up if you're meeting Japanese people and you'll be talking to them in Japanese.
1. Always accept the business card with both hands and bow politely.
2. Offer your business card at the same time and say: "[your name] to moushimasu. Douzo yoroshiku onegaishimasu". This part is somewhat awkward as you are expected to both hand your card and accept the card being offered - both actions done while holding the card with both hands.
Give the card a glance at least long enough to convey that you have had time to look over all the pertinant details. You may flip the card over to look for an English translation if any. (Usually the side with your native language will be offered face-up)
3. Find your seats if a seated meeting.
4. DO NOT put the card away. Place on the table and leave it for the duration of the meeting.
5. If you are in a meeting with multiple people, arrange the cards on the table in an order that will allow you to properly address people.
6. When the meeting is over, collect the cards and place them in your "meishi ire".

Other meeting etiquette:

There is a seating order to be followed. Observe it closely. The 'guest' to the meeting is higher in the pecking order. They get the "higher" seat. For a meeting room, this is always the side of the table opposite the entrance. The guests should be able to see someone entering the room without looking over their shoulders.

Guests are usually seated in order of rank from highest to lowest. The highest rank will sit on the far side of the table closest to the door, and then work the way down. The inviting company's employees will follow the same order, but on the side of the table near the door.

During the meeting, no fidgeting and try to keep one or both of your hands on the table.

Try to avoid making jokes. They usually don't work.

Meetings usually start with some small icebreaker chat, followed by the main discussion. It is important to allow enough time for the closing chat time though -- it is considered impolite to hold a rushed meeting and then simply leave without winding down. Instead, there is a period where some ligher discussion is had, usually with questions being asked to allow each party to get to know the other side better. These are not personal in nature usually, but instead allow both parties to know more about the business of the other party, what the customer intends to do with the product, etc.

Also, Japanese meetings are different than American business meetings, for example. The meeting in Japan is a forum to exchange ideas, offer business opportunities, or discuss resolving problems at hand. Usually a yes/no decision is NOT offered immediately. Instead, expect to wait a day or two before an answer to a proposal is delivered.
Also, Japanese will bend over backwards to avoid saying "no" or appearing to be negative to a proposal or question. "I need to think about it" "Maybe" "We shall see" and "Perhaps next time" are all pretty much equivalent to "No, thanks" in a typical American meeting. Don't confuse "I need to think about it" with the normal 'brooding time' that follows a meeting. You'll need to read body language and other cues to know whether the other side really is interested or is just being polite.
Also you'll need practice to figure out the difference between a real smile and a polite one.
The infamous teeth sucking sound is also one sign that the person would like to say "no" but can't, but it is not always so.

When the meeting is over, hold the door open for your guests and allow all of them to leave the room before anyone from your company leaves. Accompany them to the lift or entrance of your building, thank them for their time and wait for them to be out of visual range before leaving.

If the meeting was amicable, you should expect to get a response within the agreed time. It's Ok to follow up if you didn't get an expected response, as long as it should have been obvious that they were not just being polite and avoiding saying "no" right out.

I welcome any comments or questions on this! Perhaps a new discussion?
 
Blowing nose


It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.

Sneezing in Japan is not a big deal. Nobody will say or think anything. Just don't spray on anyone!

You will never hear a "bless you" - the most common thing you would hear is "daijoubu?" or "kaze demo hiita no?" (Did you catch a cold?) after the 3rd or 4th sneeze.

As for blowing one's nose -
In Japan it's not a big deal, but it is quite rude to do so in public in Korea. Don't let down your guard when you see the tissue boxes in all the restaurants in Korea - they're supposed to be used as table serviettes. If you absolutely must blow your nose, apologize first, turn so you face the wall or whatnot, and do it quietly.
I don't know about sneezing in Korea. I think you should try to do it quietly.
 
khammo01 said:
It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.

I think this also has to do with the variety of food on offer. There's a relatively limited selection of Japanese food which is easy to eat on the move. Sandwiches and other 'handheld' foods are pretty uncommon, and chopsticks aren't the greatest things for using whilst walking. Personally I almost never eat on the move, even when I go back home to England. I just find it awkward.
 
khammo01 said:
It is still pretty rare to see people walking and eating. Usually it is someone being rude or someone who is incredibly busy.

Being rude to whom?
 
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