Problem with Language Center

Hi, haven't been on these forums for a while now. I posed a while back about getting work in Japan, since then I went to a number of interviews. I got a job offer from one company all the way back in the summer, but turned it down based on some recommendations.
I started applying to Berlitz instead in September, and passed the first interview. I had another interview with another company shortly after this but turned it down as Berlitz told me they had a job ready for me. For the second interview they wanted to arrange it the beginning of November, and I was given a list of dates and times at quite short notice. I tried to set up an interview, sent an email in good time for one day, waited on that day, but never got a call. I didn't get an email until the very last day specified, and on the actual day. Unfortunately I had plans already which couldn't be changed, and so said that it would be fine as I should get back just in time for when they called. However they called me on the train, so I asked if they could ring me back in 30-60 minutes. They rang back 2 hours later, and I did the interview.
Based on this the manager at the school said that I was not reliable, and I got quite a ****** email from them. I send two emails back explaining that I felt unfairly treated, and specified all the steps I had taken to set up the interview. I got a phone call after this from the original person I talked to, apologizing for the misunderstanding and assuring me that they would find me a job (at around the time I originally specified).
So I have been waiting since then. I keep being told they are going to put in for a COE, but every couple of weeks when I hassle them for another update they still haven't done it, and tell me yet again that they will be doing it the end of the weekﾂ…
So I'm at a bit of a loss, it seems like they are giving me the run around. I have been trying plan this for a long time, but now they have messed it up. I reapplied to one company just before xmas who said they could give me a job for march, but then Berlitz told me they were doing the COE so I had to cancelﾂ…but now once again they tell me that they still haven't done it.
My plan had always been that I go to Japan the end of January, as my girlfriend is Japanese and has gone back home since we finished uni. So I really want to be in Japan as soon as possible, as we have already been apart for quite a while now. However I had also always planned to go to Japan after uni, as I have been studying it for a number of years and want to improve my skills.
When Berlitz rang me initially after the second interview, the guy assured me that traveling around January/Feb should not be a problem. He said that if they applied for the COE as soon as possible then it would make thing easier to find a job, and said that I should get it Dec/Janﾂ…then he said Feb, and now he is saying Marchﾂ…
I keep getting fed a lot of spin about the current economic crisis and that he cant tell what going to happen or if there will be any jobs, but Shane didn't seem to have a problem setting a firm date. I really regret not taking the job, but once again Berlitz told me they were applying for the COE!!!
The last email I enquired a bit more firmly into what's going on, asking why the COE keeps being set back, the fact that I told them I wanted to be in Japan by January and that I really need to be there in March at the latestﾂ…and so on. I also pointed out that he originally said that a Jan/Feb date was not a problem. I got another email back saying the same old excuses, not even giving clear explanations for some of my questions (didn't even clarify if they were going to do the COE) and then finally a suggestion that Berlitz might not be for me!!!
I'm sorry this is a bit of a rant, but I'm at a bit of a loss. I tried to plan this well in advance, but then I feel like this one company has completely screwed up my plans with a lot of false promises. If anyone can offer any suggestions I would be very grateful.

1. Who are those two contacts -- the person who berated you, and the person who apologized? Is the second one higher in rank and able to do what he says?

2. Do you want to work in the office with the first person? If the second person was not higher rank, and the email was that scathing and unprofessional, I'd send a copy of it to his superiors and higher.

3. What exactly did the second person promise?
"assuring me that they would find me a job"
"Berlitz told me they were doing the COE"
With nothing in writing, all you have is someone's word. What exactly was said and what timeline was discussed?

Berlitz has recently come under fire from its union (the fact that a union of teachers had to be formed is in itself a red flag; check the Net for what they are doing, including what is listed under www.generalunion.org ).

4. Berlitz told me they were applying for the COE!!!
What paperwork did they ask from you so they could do that? Just your resume is not enough, so if that's all they have, they are lying or stupid.

Personally, if you don't get a decent reply from your last email, I'd ditch them. You should have ditched them already, but you seem to be trying awfully hard to give them a break, even though they aren't giving you one.

I don't know what language you'll be teaching but if it is english...based on personnal observations, language schools in Japan have far more than enough people willing to accept poor working conditions to allow themselves to be "bitchy".

I've met a guy who told me about his school (not Berlitz though) making candidats wait in hope that they'd give up, because they did not want to deal with them directly...didn't understand the logic behind though...

Hi Glenski, was hoping you would reply as you were very helpful when I was originally started looking for work in Japan.

1) The guy I originally had the first interview with, and am now talking to is part of Human Resources/is Human Resources (not sure which). The guy I talked to once on the phone and complained was just a manager of one school in Tokyo.
I haven't really been in contact with the last one since we talked that one time, so its the first one I'm in contact with now. I'm guessing he would be higher up as he controls who gets placed where.

2) I never received anything from the guy at the school; he just did it all through the human resources guy. But the email he sent originally to me to inform me that they would not give me a job I found quite insulting and belittling, plus it did not actually give any reason for why they made the decision. I replied and obviously asked why, and said how upset and confused with their decision. Then he sent another email, equally as bad. I then sent quite a long email explaining all the lengths I went to in setting up the interview, along with quotations from his previous emails informing me that they would give me a job. Then at 2 in the morning I got a phone call from him, apologizing for what had happened. Once again he was very friendly again, and assured me that it shouldn't be too much of a problem to set something up for around the time I specified. I also have all of this in email, chronologically.
But then after this with each subsequent email I sent for an update no progress had been made, even though he kept saying that he would put in for the COE that week and so on. He said to me off the bat though that it would be best to find a place other than the original one.

3) Over the phone he did assure me that he would find a place for that time, in the email he said that he would put my application back in the mix and he would let me know when someone shows an interest. He also said that the first IQP sessions would start in Jan. But what he originally told me was that by applying for a COE as soon as possible it would make it easier to place me, as I would be more prepared. When I asked what was going on he always kept saying that he had not done anything, but would. I was told that I would get all the information in the post before the holidays, but have still not received anything... He kept saying that LC were not showing much activity, but that it should still not be a problem. And seeing as I was originally told that Late Jan/Feb should not be a problem I found it very misleading as I was/am just waiting for them. I did not do much because I was assured by them it should be fine.

Just before xmas I started looking at other LC's again, Ayon sounded good but they were recruiting for summer... I applied to Shane again, and the guy there said that if I applied before xmas then he could probably get me a place for March. So I started filling out all the application forms, and then I got an email from Berlitz saying that they were doing my COE...so I checked and obviously its a bad thing for two LC's to be applying for a COE. So I sent a very apologetic email to Shane, and have not received a reply from them. I'm guessing because they are pissed off with me.

I had heard about that, I will have a look into that more. But I have heard quite a few bad things about them now, as well as my own experience.

4) They just have my CV, a photo copy of my passport and I think some passport size photos. But they kept saying that they were doing all the visa application and that they were sending the forms. Plus he originally said that I should have the COE by jan or early feb, but they still haven't sorted it out yet and I still haven't got the paperwork. I was quite confused by all this, as obviously I should have got all that way before xmas to have it by jan/feb.

I know what you are saying but it just that they kept giving me reassurances, and false hope but nothing seems to be happening. Although he keep saying about the economic state of things and LC's not looking for people at the moment, its not what he originally said on the phone. This is why I have not worked something else out with someone else, as I thought they would pull through. But if someone like Shane can set and exact date why can't Berlitz, surly a business should have some idea over their own organization...I find it a bit hard to believe.

I agree with you, but its just that now its such short notice I don't know what LC's would be able to hire someone (me) in the given time period. I am considering ringing the guy at Shane tomorrow and seeing if there is still any chance with that, although I very much doubt it.

Hi Dreamer, that's sound very bad. But I have heard quite a few bad things about some of the LC's, and yes it would be English.

I'm not really sure what my options are now, as I don't really have much experience in sorting out a move to another country. I had heard that it's best to go over to the country first and look for work, then fly back to get the visa. Although obviously this is a lot more expensive way of doing things, but I would be willing to consider it if it's going to solve my current problems.

Anyway thanks very much, I really do find this helpful. I hope this all makes sense as it quite late here, so kind of running on fumes at the mo, and feels like I rambled again.

Just to add, I got quite confused about the COE stuff as he talked about both the COE and visa application together. So I thought that when he sent the COE documents to me to fill out he had already done something with the visa people, which is why I cancelled with Shane again, if that makes senseﾂ…as I didn't want them having two company's apply at the same time (which is meant to be bad).

Please excuse the spelling and the grammar, looks pretty bad.

I am not sure if this really solves your problem, but why not go to Japan and sort the problem face to face. Rather than sitting there and waiting for his emails, which didn't solve anything at all.

I hope everything works out for you

A guy who manages one school sent you a scathing email regarding your chances at working for the company? Something is fishy here. What reason does he have to do that? Had you ever met him before? That is just too weird. I suspect he has more control over the hiring than you think.

If I were you, I wouldn't have just accepted a 2am phone call, no matter how apologetic the person was over previous behavior. If he can't figure out the time difference, he's too stupid to deal with. If he KNEW the time difference and called anyway, his apology is undeserving.

Since that call, they've told you they will put in for the COE. Ok. Cool. But, you also wrote: he said that he would put my application back in the mix and he would let me know when someone shows an interest. This tells me you do not yet have the job.

what he originally told me was that by applying for a COE as soon as possible it would make it easier to place me, as I would be more prepared.

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Huh? Someone is confused here, him or me. Applying for a COE is the first step in applying for your visa, which says you are HIRED! It has no bearing whatsoever on where they place you. People working for JET or NOVA don't get more than a couple weeks of notice on their placement, so other than telling you WHEN the job starts (so you can be prepared with airline tickets), there is nothing else to prepare for at this point. I still think you are not yet hired.

When I asked what was going on he always kept saying that he had not done anything, but would. I was told that I would get all the information in the post before the holidays, but have still not received anything..

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Bail out. These guys are just stringing you along. In the remote chance they are not, they are just obviously incompetent, and do you want to trust your salary and training with these bozos? Or any sort of support for daily life? Nope.

He kept saying that LC were not showing much activity

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I have no idea what this means. Berlitz advertised, you applied. They must have had openings in their "LCs". What "activity" is there to show? More red flags.

then I got an email from Berlitz saying that they were doing my COE...so I checked and obviously its a bad thing for two LC's to be applying for a COE.

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No it's not. I can't understand why on God's earth you would still want to work for Berlitz at that point. Shane has a bad enough reputation, but if you felt they were ok, then you should have stayed with them, waited for the COE to come in, and told Berlitz off.

I agree with you, but its just that now its such short notice I don't know what LC's would be able to hire someone (me) in the given time period.

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Look, people come here in March to find employers and to start in April. Don't give up in January!

I'm not really sure what my options are now

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Simple. Keep looking and when Berlitz miraculously says you have a COE awaiting, tell them to send it, and then decide whether to flush it down the toilet.

Yes, you can come here and look around (it shows more commitment, and you have more opportunties to choose from). But you will have to bring US$4000-5000 to support yourself for 3 months before the first paycheck comes in.

But I have heard quite a few bad things about some of the LC's

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These are called conversation schools or eikaiwas. Yes, you will hear bad things. The Internet is the easiest way for people to vent anonymously. Study those complaints and avoid the places with the most. You have very few options. ALT through JET programme or a dispatch agency, or instructor for eikaiwa.

I had heard that it's best to go over to the country first and look for work, then fly back to get the visa.

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Huh? You don't have to leave Japan to get your work visa. That old plan has not been necessary for a few years. Come, get hired, apply for visa, stay, work.

Well it wasn't the guy at the school who sent that email, he never even got in contact with me again. It was the human resources guy, so he must covering more than one school.

Yeah, well I wasn't to happy when he called seeing as he just woke me up. But he kept apologizing, and it sounded as if my problem was being fixed.

And yes you are right, obviously there's no job yet. I haven't been too happy having to wait, and most other school don't seem to arrange job like this. But again they have been very confusing at Berlitz, assuring me of one thing at the start and then changing what they said. Does feel very much like they are stringing me along.
As for the COE. He said that if he filled out all the visa paper work, COE as well. Applied for the COE and got a firm date (the 90 day window) of when I could come to Japan, then more LC's would be interested in hiring me as I would be more ready to go? That is what he said anyway.

Again I think you are right, but my experience with company's like this is small. So while I have been worried about what their doing, I haven't be sure about what to do, other than to keep emailing them and getting on their case. And they do sound very incompetent. I will probably do what you said, and ask them to keep doing what their doing (or not as may be the case) and look for other places. If they actually send me the forms, then I will decide when I get them if I should bin them.

I am kicking myself about the Shane now. I mean I haven't heard very good things about them either, and someone I know actually wrote me a massive email about why not to go with them (based on this own experience). But the guy who interviewed me in London was very nice and helpful, and they could actually give me a date of when to go. Which is a lot more than Berlitz is doing.

Hummm, to go there. I probably don't have enough, I have a fair bit but not quite that much. I thought for the Visa you had to be outside of Japan to get it? Could it also be a good idea to get a working holiday visa, look for work and then change it into a proper working Visa?

Are there any schools anyone can recommend, at least to look into? I have already looked at Aeon, they are hiring now, but for the summer. Shane probably won't be so interested in me, seeing as I have rather stupidly turned them down twice now. I'm not sure about any others; those were the main ones I looked into. I didn't think it would be worth looking into Nova, seeing as they went under recently, I know they have been taken over now though.

Many thanks.

lv426 said:

Hummm, to go there. I probably don't have enough, I have a fair bit but not quite that much. I thought for the Visa you had to be outside of Japan to get it?

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No. You can come as a tourist and then change over without leaving the country. Rules changed to that effect a few years ago.

Could it also be a good idea to get a working holiday visa, look for work and then change it into a proper working Visa?

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Sure. But, remember that you get a chance to use the WHV only once in your life.

Are there any schools anyone can recommend, at least to look into?

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It's easier to list schools NOT to recommend. Just do your searching and come here if you have a question about an employer. Better still, go to the ESL Cafe and ask. (I'm there, too.) More teachers there.

Thanks again Glenski. I told Berlitz to keep doing what ever their doing, and got an email today saying they would. Tomorrow I will do some more research again, and have a look on ESL as well.

Thats good news about the visa, that would make alot of things easyer. I will check back anyway when I have looked at some more schools.

Been looking into some more schools, here's my list so far including ones I have already dealt with.

Berlitz - Giving me the run around, have no idea when a job will become available.

Shane - Sent email enquiring, but doubt I will hear anything back.

Aeon - Only recruiting for the summer.

GEOS - Only recruiting for the summer, only interviewing in Japan.

ECC - Applied, but only recruiting for the summer.

It seems to be that most of them are only recruiting for the summer, which doesn't really help me going over in March. I know there was a list of schools I think at Dave's ESL Cafe, but my login doesn't seem to work any more. I'm going to email them about that.
What is the easiest way of finding schools like this? Also my girlfriend recommended that I look into private schools in Tokyo, she said I might be able to get a better job with them...but I'm not sure how I would go about looking for them. Searching on Google, it doesn't come back with much, and if it does its usually in Japanese.

The other thing I was wondering is about going over there to find a job, which would be the easiest way. However how long after being accepted by a company should it take to begin work? I think from over seas they say it can take up to two months to get a visa sorted, would it be the same in Japan?

Also the biggest risk in traveling over to Japan to get a job is that you can't find one, what are chances that this would be likely to happen? Is there anything I can do to minimize this? Obviously what money I have saved up can only support me for so long.

Ideally I would like to get a job before heading over there, however it doesn't seem possible from what I have seen so far. A lot of them seem to say it can take 2-5 months from first applying.

Many thanks again, you have been extremely helpful.

Just to add.

Interac - Applied as they said on the website there were positions available for March/April, however on the guidelines says they want teaching experience which I don't have.

lv426 said:

Been looking into some more schools, here's my list so far including ones I have already dealt with.

Berlitz - Giving me the run around, have no idea when a job will become available.

Shane - Sent email enquiring, but doubt I will hear anything back.

Aeon - Only recruiting for the summer.

GEOS - Only recruiting for the summer, only interviewing in Japan.

ECC - Applied, but only recruiting for the summer.

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So, you are hopeful or despondent after looking at only 5 places? C'mon. Get with it!

What is the easiest way of finding schools like this?

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There is no "easy". Only do. (Sounds like Yoda, doesn't it?)

Go to the many job ad sites, sift through, and apply to whomever looks appealing. Dozens of sites around.
Gaijinpot.com
ELTNews.com
ESLCAFE.com
OyahoSensei.com (only 2 times a month)
Plus the Monday edition of The Japan Times (whose ads are different from the online classifieds)
and many more

Also my girlfriend recommended that I look into private schools in Tokyo, she said I might be able to get a better job with them

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Private high schools? Not without experience in Japan. Maybe through a lousy ALT dispatch agency...

The other thing I was wondering is about going over there to find a job, which would be the easiest way. However how long after being accepted by a company should it take to begin work? I think from over seas they say it can take up to two months to get a visa sorted, would it be the same in Japan?

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Coming here increases your targets of opportunity. Plus, employers see the fact that you are here as a sign of commitment (hence, the reason some places advertise only for people who are already here). Yes, bring enough support money for 2-4 months.

Also the biggest risk in traveling over to Japan to get a job is that you can't find one, what are chances that this would be likely to happen?

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Nobody has a crystal ball to help on this one.

Is there anything I can do to minimize this?

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Sure. Learn the market. Learn Japanese. Get a certificate in TEFL or related. Make a decent resume and have someone check it. Customize every cover letter. Know when to come and when not to. Don't take with you into the interview any western morals about how the business is run. Realize that the employer wants to know what you can do for him, not vice versa.

Ideally I would like to get a job before heading over there, however it doesn't seem possible from what I have seen so far. A lot of them seem to say it can take 2-5 months from first applying.

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True, simply because they advertise before they need the help, unless there is an emergency, and they want to do recruiting right. Plus, candidates hired from abroad need time for visa processing and to get their affairs in order back home before moving.

lv426 said:

Just to add.
Interac - Applied as they said on the website there were positions available for March/April, however on the guidelines says they want teaching experience which I don't have.

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I know people who applied and got accepted without experience. They are a dispatch agency that sends ALTs to public schools! You should apply anyway and see what happens. You never know, until they reject you.

Anyway, now I believe is too late since the last overseas interview sessions are over.

Well those are ones that I had done so far, I have been looking on Gajinpot since then. Was pretty helpful, applied to Gaba, just sent the application form and everything the other day. Have also applied to some others as well. I have some days off work now, so I can do some serious searching.
Although it might be a little premature, I have started looking into media courses in Japan. I was thinking that after working for a LS for a year and if my Japanese isn't too bad, it might be something worth doing seeing as that industry is my career goal.
Also I should be getting the COE paperwork on Monday from Berlitz, should be interesting to actually see that!!!
Anyway, hopefully I should make more progress the next couple of days. Thanks again.

You must be extremely careful when writing your resume and/or cover letter. Most schools you apply to will examine these papers carefully, looking for mistakes in spelling, punctuation, and grammar. If there are more than 2 or 3 mistakes, you will most likely not get a response.

If you do get a response, you will likely be interviewed over the telephone. Your speech will be judged during the interview, and they'll be listening for mistakes in grammar, pronunciation/enunciation, etc.

The COE paperwork is pretty simple and straightforward. It should have the name and address of the company, as well as the signature of a responsible party within the company. You'll need to answer a few questions, sign in a few places, and send the paperwork back with your college diploma and passport.

Provided there are no problems, your COE should be ready when you arrive.