Please?

Tomii515 · 16 Apr 2007

Hello!

OK, well I'm getting a little confused with "please", and I'm not talking about "kudasai", because that's insanely easy... But, I'm more confused with more simple words...

Well, I want to know when to use お願いします as please, and when to use どうぞ, but I already know ください, so yeah...

OK, well this is what I see:

お願いします would be the "please" in a sentence like this: "Please????" haha

どうぞ would be the "please" in this sentence: "Please./Go ahead./After you./etc." lol

ください would be the please in this sentence: "Will you please come?" (and wouldn't that be 来てください?)

Anyways, if you have the time, please tell me if I'm correct ro not, and if I'm not, please tell me what was wrong and explain how to make it right! Thanks~!

-Tommy

Homerduff · 16 Apr 2007

I have the same thinking as you. Now lets wait for the more experienced users to confirm this..

Tomii515 · 16 Apr 2007

yeah *waits* i gatta go, hopefully someone answers this by the time ig et to my house

yukio_michael · 16 Apr 2007

Pardon my use of roumaji, I'd like these explanations to be better suited for everyone, (also, since I don't often write much Japanese lately,I want to avoid any typos!) & since please is such a important part of any language...

You can use onegai shimasu actually to also get someone's attention, while waiting in a store to get the shop-keeper to come to the front instead of sumimasen which I found more difficult to sound natural, I would call out, onegai shimasu (same at Izakaya, to get waiter/waitress's attention), which is polite and is sort of like you are requesting them.

Still... onegai shimasu doesn't need to be a desperate sort of please, and it's quite common to use it, say, if you want someone to phone you later, you can simply say ato de denwa shite, onegai shimasu... this person can be quite familiar to you, but it does indicate a level of politeness I think greater than simply kudasai, though I have always used onegai shimasu for most things...

You can say things like ato de denwa shite yokattara, call me later on if you like...

douzo can be used to say, yes go ahead, or yes come in, come here, it's often used by shopkeepers to indicate that they are ready to serve you....

I don't believe that onegai shimasu indicates any greater level of urgency, just a greater level of politeness...

I'm imagining it's more polite than kudasai because of it's honorific o-prefix, to the noun negai to desire/wish. (not to be confused with the verb negau to desire/wish...)

Of course, I too await the answers from the experts.

ps. Tommii, I'd also like to say that I'm very impressed by your progress and dedication. You're going to be quite a good Japanese speaker one day. Your maturity & persistence in learning such a difficult language at such a young age is admirable... good job!

Tomii515 · 16 Apr 2007

Really? thansk ^^ And thanks for the information... I was also going to ask about "sumimasen" and "gomen nasai" also... but u basically answered my question, so ill take in what u said and take in what my textbook says and mix it together XD heheh thanks though ^^

-Tommy

p.s. 日本へ行きましたか？日本へ行きたい！TT

Ichiroll · 16 Apr 2007

Tomii..try Wikipedia --this : japanese use of Please (Politeness)

It will explain the difference..It depends who you are with or whom you are speaking to or Your friends or meeting a persons fo rthe first time

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu . Tomii

IchiRoll

Glenn · 16 Apr 2007

yukio_michael said:
ato de denwa shite yokattara, call me later on if you like...

Yokattara should come first, though. If it's after the verb in -te form like that, it belongs to a seperate clause, so the way you have it would be more like "call me later, and if it's alright..." Of course the way you have it is fine if you put a comma in there, I guess, but it's probably better to have it first because if not they may think that you're not usually very polite, but just remembered that you're supposed to be now.

yukio_michael said:
I'm imagining it's more polite than kudasai because of it's honorific o-prefix, to the noun negai to desire/wish. (not to be confused with the verb negau to desire/wish...)

I've always thought of it as the humble form of negau, like o-hanashi shimasu is the humble form of hanasu. And when I say always thought that, I mean since I actually broke it down. Before that I just took it as a word in its own right.

Damicci · 16 Apr 2007

Glenn said:
Yokattara should come first, though. If it's after the verb in -te form like that, it belongs to a separate clause, so the way you have it would be more like "call me later, and if it's alright..." Of course the way you have it is fine if you put a comma in there, I guess, but it's probably better to have it first because if not they may think that you're not usually very polite, but just remembered that you're supposed to be now.

I am guessing the case of ~たら, if there isn't a conditional in the beginning like もし or たぶん then we could assume ~たら means "when". Right?

If that's the case then does it really matter where 良かったら goes?

Elizabeth · 16 Apr 2007

I've always thought of it as the humble form of negau, like o-hanashi shimasu is the humble form of hanasu. And when I say always thought that, I mean since I actually broke it down. Before that I just took it as a word in its own right.

I believe the combination of [o]-masu + shimasu (itashimasu) always produces a humble form. Although I'm not sure there's anything called the humble 'o' prefix. In fact I'm fairly sure that's not a possibility.

Elizabeth · 16 Apr 2007

You can use onegai shimasu actually to also get someone's attention, while waiting in a store to get the shop-keeper to come to the front instead of sumimasen which I found more difficult to sound natural, I would call out, onegai shimasu (same at Izakaya, to get waiter/waitress's attention), which is polite and is sort of like you are requesting them.

I've never heard of "onegai shimasu" being used to attract someone's attention unless it is intended as a plea for help in an emergency situation, but perhaps there are situations it is natural in.

Onegai shimasu is used for ordering (interchangable with 'kudasai'), when requesting a service (In a taxi for instance : Tokyo eki made, onegaishimasu),
asking for someone on the phone (Tanaka-san onegaishimasu), putting in for a favor, making a plea (onegai dakara !)....

Still... onegai shimasu doesn't need to be a desperate sort of please, and it's quite common to use it, say, if you want someone to phone you later, you can simply say ato de denwa shite, onegai shimasu... this person can be quite familiar to you, but it does indicate a level of politeness I think greater than simply kudasai, though I have always used onegai shimasu for most things...

When asking for anything involving an action, or appended to the 'te form' I don't think you can use 'onegaishimasu.' At least that isn't a use that I've ever seen.

Glenn · 16 Apr 2007

Damicci said:
I am guessing the case of ~たら, if there isn't a conditional in the beginning like もし or たぶん then we could assume ~たら means "when". Right?

If that's the case then does it really matter where 良かったら goes?

As far as I know the function of よかったら here is to let the person you're talking to know that it's up to them whether they do it or not, so if you put it last it sounds like "call me later. That is if it's okay with you," or something like that. Well, that translation isn't really accurate, but the point is it comes across to me as something like "do this. Oh yeah, please." NSoJs feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Elizabeth said:
I've never heard of "onegai shimasu" being used to attract someone's attention unless it is intended as a plea for help in an emergency situation, but perhaps there are situations it is natural in.

I have, a few times, by native Japanese speakers.

Elizabeth said:
When asking for anything involving an action, or appended to the 'te form' I don't think you can use 'onegaishimasu.' At least that isn't a use that I've ever seen.

When it follows a pause it seems plausible. Kind of like "give me a call. Please." How natural it is is another question entirely.

Elizabeth · 16 Apr 2007

Damicci said:
I am guessing the case of ~たら, if there isn't a conditional in the beginning like もし or たぶん then we could assume ~たら means "when". Right?

If that's the case then does it really matter where 良かったら goes?

Just たら alone it is safe to think of as ambiguous except in set phrases such as 良かったら、宜しかったら、(if you like....).

Elizabeth · 16 Apr 2007

When it follows a pause it seems plausible. Kind of like "give me a call. Please." How natural it is is another question entirely.

Yes, I would take it as an order and a not very polite way of speaking, in that case....電話をお願いできますか。電話をお願いしたいんですが、sound better but I still wouldn't use it in common situations with anyone I was very familiar with.

Elizabeth · 16 Apr 2007

I have, a few times, by native Japanese speakers.

Yes, apparently onegai shimasu or sumimasen are both fine to call attention to yourself. Shiranakatta. Onegai shimasu may even be preferable although I still have a hard time shouting it. And if the wait staff is still totally spacing out you can try using "moshi moshi" on them.

yukio_michael · 16 Apr 2007

I'm pretty sure I made a mistake in my description of the word douzo and it's more or less I think, I was thinking of being led to a table with the words hai douzo... not something like irasshai... which is simply a welcome.... but I suppose now that I think of it, it could be something like "right this way...".

I did find this example: ええ、どうぞ来てね。 for "yes, please come..." I'm just using that to contrast "yes, go ahead...".

Elizabeth said:
I've never heard of "onegai shimasu" being used to attract someone's attention unless it is intended as a plea for help in an emergency situation, but perhaps there are situations it is natural in.

I used it, as I said quite a bit, and it was always understood, though I was taught that it was more polite than sumimasen... What reinforced my use of this word was hearing other males use it... I think women use sumimasen moreso... this is just in my small experience.

Of course, I think Japanese is flexible in that some people may or may not use it... it was rarer to hear onegai shimasu than sumimasen, but easier for me to say, avoiding the sylabic nasal n, at the end of sumimasen, which took me a little bit of time to grasp the nuances of.

Glenn · 17 Apr 2007

yukio_michael said:
I used it, as I said quite a bit, and it was always understood, though I was taught that it was more polite than sumimasen...

When I first heard it I thought it seemed more polite than sumimasen, so I'm glad to hear that you were taught that.

yukio_michael said:
Of course, I think Japanese is flexible in that some people may or may not use it... it was rarer to hear onegai shimasu than sumimasen, but easier for me to say, avoiding the sylablic nasal n, at the end of sumimasen, which took me a little bit of time to grasp the nuances of.

I still screw it up and I (more or less) know how it's supposed to be pronounced. It's easy to fall back into those old habits I have from speaking English.

Damicci · 17 Apr 2007

I didn't know 良かったら was a set phrase. It just looked like "when it is ok/good"

Basically, "give me a call whenever it's good for you."
or "whenever it's good for you, give me call"

Glenn · 17 Apr 2007

I always thought of it more like "if it's alright..." よかったら、これも食べてください or よかったら今度は英語で話したいと思います or something like that.

Elizabeth · 17 Apr 2007

Damicci said:
I didn't know 良かったら was a set phrase. It just looked like "when it is ok/good"

Basically, "give me a call whenever it's good for you."
or "whenever it's good for you, give me call"

I would use "when it's convenient" for that....gotsugou no ii toki ni or something similar.

Please?

Tomii515

やった～！

Homerduff

ケビン

Tomii515

やった～！

yukio_michael

後輩

Tomii515

やった～！

Ichiroll

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Damicci

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

yukio_michael

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Damicci

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Elizabeth

先輩

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