pink spider in kanji for tattoo - need help

hello,
i would like to get the words pink spider tattooed ( in japanese kanji symbols ).
i researched the internet, but couldn't find anything. i heard many horror stories of people ending up with rubbish instead of the symbols that they wanted, because of people who didn't really know what they were doing or who weren't "good enough" when it comes to translating phrases/ words into kanji. since this is a serious body modification, i really need to find someone who could show me how to write / draw the symbols. so, is there a kanji expert or japanese person in this forum who could help me ?
and in what order would i have to get the two symbols tattooed ? first pink then spider ? i am asking because every language has different word/ sentence structure rules. thank you so much for your help !!

Are you feeling lucky enough to trust total strangers about this?

Strangers like me?

if you are trying to do a reference to the song, you are better off using katakana： ピンクスパイダー

If you are dead set on kanji, I suppose 桃色の蜘 (momoiro is "pink," but it literally means "peach color")... If you are indeed trying to reference the song, this reference would be lost, as the name of the song is Pink Spider/ピンクスパイダー, not momoiro no kumo/桃色の蜘

Either way, I think it's a pretty silly tattoo.

thanks for your info. please just let me clearify something. if i have ﾆ痴ﾆ停?愴誰ﾆ湛ﾆ恥ﾆ辰ﾆ胆ﾂー tattooed and walk around in japan, what would japanese people read/see ? pink spider ? does that refer in this specific way of writing only to the song title or to a pink spider in general? like if i would say to you "hey look, over there on the fence is a pink spider" ? would that look different ? the "real pink spider" compared to the song title pink spider ? i am just a little irritated because i finally found a kanji symbol for spider and it looked completely different.
a stupid question, what is the difference between katakana and kanji ? don't get mad, i am really tying to understand and to learn !

see, i have attached a pic of a symbol that means "spider" - at least that's what the website said.... looks different from your symbol.

well, the song title is "pink spider," so it is written in katakana, the phonetic 'syllabary' used to transliterate foreign words. It's not so much that the name is Japanese, but it is the English words written in Japanese characters. ピンクスパイダー would be pronounced the same as it is in the song. If you intend the reference, you need to either write the words in English (my recommendation, I'll explain below) or katakana.

Kanji and Chinese Hanzi: the characters have meaning, and don't just correspond to sounds the way the alphabet or 'syllabaries' like hiragana and katakana. In this regard, what I've written, 桃色の蜘, is a direct translation of "pink spider" and would be pronounced "momoiro no kumo." Again, this just means pink spider, and would not be immediately recognizable as any reference to the song, especially since "momoiro no kumo" is not the name of the song.

If you are indeed worried about what Japanese people will think when they see your tattoo, perhaps you shouldn't get one at all--tattoos are for YOU, not for anyone else. If you are dead set on getting a tattoo, and want these words, I would recommend getting it done in English. Why?

Meaning: It seems that you are just into the music, and are not learning the language, so ピンクスパイダー doesn't mean anything to you (as you cannot read it). Why not get a tattoo that has meaning to you that you can actually read? That way, not only are you not putting the fate of your ink in the hands of strangers, but you have a tattoo that you and others can read. The official name of the song is both written in both English and katakana, so you are not compromising anything by using English.

Aesthetic: Personally, I think katakana looks horrible as a tattoo. Even worse is poorly done Kanji (see Hanzi Smatter for examples) Well-done gothic lettering looks pretty good, is probably appropriate for the tattoo you want, and you are FAR more likely to find a tattoo artist where you are that can do good gothic lettering than one that can even read katakana, let alone draw it properly. It's not just a matter of following a stencil; if your artist does not understand Japanese calligraphy, there's a good chance the characters will look funny/wrong.

Tattoos in General: I don't want to make it seem that I'm against tattoos, but getting a tattoo in Japanese (kanji or hiragana or katakana) is so trite and cliche these days... Ultimately, you are the person wearing it for the rest of your life, so you had better be sure you won't regret this 5, 10, 30 years down the road. There is still some social stigma attached to tattoos, particularly in Japan, so please consider carefully the size and placement (is it easy to conceal if necessary?), and what kind of statement you want to make about yourself when people do see your ink. "I like Hide" is kind of a shallow statement, so perhaps your tattoo should say something more about yourself, or at least look awesome enough that people won't notice the vapidity of the message behind it.

And your image did not attach. Perhaps you could just post a link. Just paste the URL and remove the "http://www." part

i can't believe it,i just wrote a long reply and must have hit a wrong button and woosh, everything was deleted !

1) strange, i can see my attachment,but i changed my avatar to the kanji spider symbol i wanted to show you

2) yes, gothic writing is nice,but i don't want everybody to straight out see, what my tattoo means. like you said,it'sprivate, just for me, and only i want to know the meaning.

3) i am not worried in the sense that japanese people would judge me for what my tattoo stands for. i am worried that ( example ) i go into a studio and say "give me a kanji symbol for love" and then i end up in japan one day or meet someone who really speaks/understands japanese and he asks me why i have the symbol for trashcan on my ankle...see,what i mean ?
it's hard to make sure, that you really get the symbol you ask for.

4) as i mentioned in my last point,i plan on getting a tiny one right over my ankle , so it will be invisible most of the time.

5) don't get me wrong, i am not only into japanese pop/rock music. i am fascinated by the culture, i love their cuisine, the landscape and one day i would love to study the language. english isn't my first language, german is, so my head is already quite full of languages , but one day, when i have more time and less stress i will try to find a good language school/teacher.

I can now see your attachment now, earlier it just didn't show up. The full word for "spider" is 蜘蛛, which is read "kumo." Both characters actually mean spider, and the first one can also be read "kumo," but the second one by itself can only be read "shu" or "chu." Generally, neither are used alone. Go to JDIC and search for "spider" and either of the characters, and you'll see what I mean. To eliminate confusion, you should use 蜘蛛, but either way it will mean "spider," as in the arachnid. Again, there can be ambiguity and meaning lost in translation, so it's generally better to stick to the original wording, in whatever language that is.

In this case, regardless of what characters were used, the "original wording" is in English

2)I've told others this before, as there are many people that come here just for translations for their tattoos: if you and the people around you cannot read it, and it only has that personal significance for you (the person with the tattoo), are you not imposing your own meaning upon the characters? By virtue of this, you could apply any meaning to any set of characters, in which case, why bother trying to get the "correct" characters in the first place?

3)...Of course, because it's not just about the personal significance of the tattoo, but you really do care what other people think and how they perceive you. In that case, perhaps I should tell you that Japanese people would be perplexed as to why you would want a tattoo in Japanese, let alone one that says "ピンクスパイダー," or even more confusing, "桃色の蜘蛛."

If you really want to get this done in Kanji (or even katakana), I only request that you submit a photo of the finished work to Hanzi Smatter. I like for them to keep up to date on the crazy things westerners write on themselves. Tian could also give you a critique of the job your tattooist did on the characters.

~~~~
As a bit of a personal (and highly embarrassing) anecdote regarding kanji tattoos, I wanted one when I was young and rebellious and didn't know anything, for somewhat similar reasons as to yours (Mine had nothing to do with music, but I was interested in the culture and language but didn't really know anything about either). I was lucky enough to share this idea with other people, and I got a verbal beating for my proposed idea. I decided to wait on the tattoo in the off chance that I actually do learn more about these things in which I held such interest. Having done so, the more I learned about Japan, its culture and language, the more I realized just how silly and ignorant I had been. Years later, I have no tattoos, and I'm glad that I was saved from making such a monumental mistake.

Here you go!
乳製品

The bill's in the mail.

orochi, your symbols seem to mean something like dairy products. that's at least what i got out of my limited translation resources.

nice gaijin, thanks again for all your detailed info. you definately showed me, that translating ( at least into japanese ) is not easy at all, especially when dealing with more than one word.
i can see that you are concerned about me, putting something on my body, i might regret. i can assure you, i am older, than you probably think. i am standing with "both feet on the ground" - as we would say in germany.
our conversation reminds me a little about the time when we first came to alaska. in german we only have one word for snow, "Schnee", if you want to describe the texture you could talk about "Pulverschnee" , if it's really soft and powdery. that's it. i guess because we don't have too much snow in germany. but here i learned that the inuit, the native tribes, like tlingit, haida, etc, they have a million different words for snow, depending on the shade of white, if it is soft snow, if there's a little rain mixed it...you get the picture. so depending on language - translation can be quite a task.

i really don't care what other people might think, as long as i am happy. it's funny. in germany everything american is totaly cool. i have seen americans wonder, why do they ( the germans ) use so much english, why don't they print more german stuff on their shirts., etc. i guess to a lot of people their own culture seems a little boring compared to other cultures. kinda like "the grass is greener on the other side" - and we know it usually isn't !
i can tell you that growing up in germany ( long time ago, hehe ) our country was visited by quite a lot of japanese people. they were fascinated by our culture, but mainly by our craftmanship, our factories. construction, engineering, doing things in general. we germans are supposed to be very detail oriented, we have high work ethics, etc.
so they were quite a lot of little groups of japanese businessmen touring mercedes, or bmw, for example. and you could always find japanese tourists in front of the dome in cologne taking photos, which always seemed boring to me. you see, we are all different but in many ways the same...

i might or might not stick with the spider tattoo, but i definately want one, i think kanji symbols are pretty, even if they look ordinary, boring to people who "grew up with them". to me it's foreign and that's all that counts. i do get your point about "it's cool" right now and i must confess that annoys me a little bit. i like to be unique, i don't like to have something that one million other people have as well. like tribal tattoos are very popular, sooooo many men have something wrapped around their upper arm, that looks like barbed wire, some kind of design, tribal, or "just cool" looking.

in one point i really don't want to be judged though: i came to this forum mainly to learn and i find it kinda disheartening to find out how many people look down on you, if you ask questions, or if you don't understand something the first time. isn't this part of the purpose here...exchange of knowledge ? can't i be interested in japanese culture, without being an expert ?

you are different though, you really took your time to explain and share your views with me. thanks!

I've seen a lot of people come and go on this forum requesting translations for tattoos, and having been there and seen just how bad it can get, I can see both sides of the fence.

There are several approaches to dealing with this situation, and many are jaded and just end up joking around (like orochi). I have done this too, out of the frustration that comes from trying to help people when they don't really want it.

I've laid out my case, so at least it is up to you to make your own informed decision. Weigh your options carefully, and remember that although kanji tattoos (or any tattoo in a foreign language) are very popular these days, it's rare to find a tattooist that really knows how to draw them properly. Do your research and find the right artist, or you might regret it down the road.

orochi said:

Here you go!
窶愿ｻﾂ青ｻ窶｢i

The bill's in the mail.

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And with an avatar like that.........

after all the horror stories about americans drawing kanji symbols i made up my mind. we will be flying to tokyo next summer ('09 ). still a long time ... but i think getting a tattoo there will be worth the wait.

That's a step up, but you should still do some research on the tattooist that will do the work (It would help to start by finding active shops where you will be going, as they are hard to find just walking down the street). All the same cautions still apply.

nice gaijin said:

That's a step up, but you should still do some research on the tattooist that will do the work (It would help to start by finding active shops where you will be going, as they are hard to find just walking down the street). All the same cautions still apply.

Click to expand...

Actually, with many Japanese youth eagerly adopting the tattoo-as-fashion-accessory idiocy that appears to be running rampant in the US, tattoo parlors aren't so hard to find anymore. For better or worse, they seem to be more inspired by their Western counterparts than an expansion of the Japanese tradition. In other words, what she can expect to find is basically an American tattoo parlor staffed by Japanese, doing mostly the "classic" Western designs. But they grew up in Japan, have sufficient firsthand experience with the language and artistic ability, and should therefore be able to do a credible job on Japanese text.

What the hell is "Pink Spider" anyway? I gather it is some sort of song. But is it of sufficiently lasting significance that you want it buried under your skin for permanent display? I can't help but think of the old guys wandering around with Blue Oyster Cult tattoos, which similarly must have seemed like a good idea at the time.

nice gaijin said:

if you are trying to do a reference to the song, you are better off using katakana： ピンクスパイダー

If you are dead set on kanji, I suppose 桃色の蜘 (momoiro is "pink," but it literally means "peach color")... If you are indeed trying to reference the song, this reference would be lost, as the name of the song is Pink Spider/ピンクスパイダー, not momoiro no kumo/桃色の蜘

Either way, I think it's a pretty silly tattoo.

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Where did you get 蜘? According to everything I've ever seen, spider (kumo) is normally written with both characters, as 蜘蛛.

Mike Cash said:

Actually, with many Japanese youth eagerly adopting the tattoo-as-fashion-accessory idiocy that appears to be running rampant in the US, tattoo parlors aren't so hard to find anymore. For better or worse, they seem to be more inspired by their Western counterparts than an expansion of the Japanese tradition. In other words, what she can expect to find is basically an American tattoo parlor staffed by Japanese, doing mostly the "classic" Western designs. But they grew up in Japan, have sufficient firsthand experience with the language and artistic ability, and should therefore be able to do a credible job on Japanese text.

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A fair assessment of the situation. I saw an increasing number of tattoos on young rebels squatting around Shibuya, smoking cigarettes and united in their non-conformity; I suppose they had to get their tattoos somewhere... But all of them were indeed very western-looking. I can honestly say that I've never seen a Japanese person with the kind of kanji tattoo the OP wants. I suppose when you've grown up with a language, it's just not exotic enough to be etched into your skin.

What the hell is "Pink Spider" anyway? I gather it is some sort of song. But is it of sufficiently lasting significance that you want it buried under your skin for permanent display? I can't help but think of the old guys wandering around with Blue Oyster Cult tattoos, which similarly must have seemed like a good idea at the time.

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That's a hell of a mental image. Yes it's a popular (old) pop song, probably sung by the person in the OP's avatar.

Elizabeth said:

Where did you get 蜘? According to everything I've ever seen, spider (kumo) is normally written with both characters, as 蜘蛛.

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That was the kanji I first learned for spider, but as I look, I don't see it by itself anywhere either. It should be written with both characters, my mistake.

kanji

I have a symbol if anyone can tell me what it means....how do i create the symbol in typing to show it to anyone here that may be able to help. Just looking for a translation on the symbol

blueyez84 said:

I have a symbol if anyone can tell me what it means....how do i create the symbol in typing to show it to anyone here that may be able to help. Just looking for a translation on the symbol

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The first means "beauty" and the second apparently means "evil thought" and does not exist in Japanese.

窶敕ｼﾅ禿

After you've sobered up and found out you've gotten a kanji tattoo is not the most felicitous point at which to inquire as to its meaning.

God must have had his hands particularly full with looking after little children at the moment.

Just to provide more info on 慝, it does seem to appear in Japanese, at least, and the "evil thought" meaning seems to be a bit bogus (I know that's what MDBG has for it, though). Here are some links:

私慝（しとく）の意味 - goo国語辞書 (In the word 私慝 (しとく)
慝の書き方や読み方 Weblio辞書 (Weblio's 漢字辞典)
http://kakijun.main.jp/page/tokj14200.html (with stroke order and a compound word and a 四字熟語)

Also, there's this (from Taiwan's MOE's 國語辭典):

慝 部首 心 部首外筆畫 11 總筆畫 15
漢語拼音 te4
名
1.邪惡。詩經˙大雅˙民勞：「式遏寇虐，無俾作慝。」
2.壞人。資治通鑑˙卷二三二˙唐紀四十八˙德宗貞元元年：「實眾慝驚心之日，群生改觀之時。」胡三省˙注：「眾慝，猶言眾惡也。」
3.災害。國語˙晉語八：「蠱之慝，穀之飛實生之。」

動
改變。通「忒」。詩經˙鄘風˙柏舟：「髧彼兩髦，實維我特，之死矢靡慝。」

From that it apparently could mean "evil", "bad person", or "disaster", with a verb meaning of "change". Just FYI.

Once while visiting my family in the states, my niece asked my wife if she could write the name of her newborn baby in Japanese. She wrote the name down in katakana on a piece of paper and that was the end of that.

All up until a month later when we got a wonderful letter from the states along with a picture of my nieces new tattoo. Words cannot do justice to the travesty we were greeted with. My wife just sat there doing the Japanese equivalent of a facepalm. Matters weren't helped much when she asked me to translate my own remarks on the tattoo, and I had to explain what "tramp stamp" means.

Any chance of you sharing the picture? It isn't every day a fellow gets a chance to see a woman with her child's name rendered as a katakana butt hat.

Will ask my wife where the pic is. She doesn't throw anything "American family"ish away so I'm sure it's still around.

It wouldn't have been so bad except it didn't have any of the usual combination of broad and thin strokes that a Japanese language tattoo needs. Just thin lines with no attempt at any sort of elegance.

Searle's Chinese room experiment run amok.