"Our goal is to keep the harpoons quiet for the next three weeks.ﾂ”

The Steve Irwin has refueled and has found the Japanese whalers again. They are in pursuit.

The Steve Irwin is now pursuing the Nisshin Maru and two harpoon vessels with the Fukuyoshi Maru No. 68 in pursuit of the Steve Irwin.

ﾂ"The great Southern Ocean whaling ship chase is on again,ﾂ" said Captain Paul Watson. ﾂ"I don't think any whales are going to be dying today. Our goal is to keep the harpoons quiet for the next three weeks.ﾂ"

Click to expand...

http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080223_1.html

If this really is within Australian territory, as it says, its a bl..dy mess! And all that after the meetings in Tokyo, I can't believe it!. . . . .

They are definitely building a case against them from all ships including the Australian Government.

Hopefully crunch time will come soon and silence the killers.

Like naughty little boys now, nothing else. . .

"I don't know how to stop. . ." (P. Gabriel. . .)

Why do they go into Australian waters when they know it is illegal and Australia is so opposed to whaling. Wouldn't it be wiser to stick to Japanese waters rather than risk the fire of the international anti-whaling community?

I just don't understand them.

Hi Madame P.

I think is has a lot to do with "Diplomacy" as far as friendships go.

Australia and Japan go back a long way on the friendship agreement, sister city side of things and also on a government level.

I think this is where the major problem lies. It's always a fine line between friends and disagreements.

If Australia was to subdued a whaling vessel that was in Australian waters illegally, hopped on board, arrested the crew and held the ship, can you imagine what the cosnequences may be for the two countries.

The previous John Howard government always publicly disagreed with Japan's whaling stance, although never did anything about, obvioulsy to look like it was on the side of the Australian people.

The current new Labour government, before winning office, made the whaling thing a big election point so it had to do something about it.

I guess they are always trying to tread a fine line.. No doubt taking it all to an international court should see the matter resolved.

In my opinion, it's very difficult to understand how the apanese government is so determined, considering the worldwide opposition, as opossed to support, and also considering, or at least I think, mostly did not feature at any tables when I was their, and as previously said, I only saw it once on the shelf at a SATY supermarket.

But I am as confused as you why on earth they would want to venture into Australian waters illegally, unless they are trying to prove something, once again, possibly a fine line what the actual whalers are doing, and who knows what the government is saying to them..

It would seem that the whalers are free to roam as they wish..

If the Japanese vessels really are in Australian waters, the Australian navy would come and detain them. The fact that they are silent means that Japanese are operating outside Australian territory, period.

The Japanese are whaling in Australian waters:

This chase is taking place well inside Australian Antarctic Territorial waters. The position at 1530 Hours (Melbourne time)(0345 G.M.T.) was 62 Degrees 30 Minutes South and 096 Degrees 58 Minutes East.

Click to expand...

http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080223_2.html

But the latest news from the Sea Shepherd is that they've chased them out of the Australian territory:

The Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin has successfully chased the Japanese whaling fleet out of the waters of the Australian Antarctic Territory.

For the last 10 days the Japanese fleet was killing whales not far off the coast of the Australian Antarctic Territory. On the morning of February 23rd, Sea Shepherd intercepted the fleet about 80 miles north of the Shackleton Glacier.

Over the last 24 hours the fleet has fled north and they are now above the 200 miles territorial lines that defines the Australian Antarctic Economic Exclusion Zone and the Australian Whale Sanctuary.

No whales have been killed during the last 30 hours.

Click to expand...

http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080224_1.html

However, the Japanese are not the only ones doing illegal hunting. The Sea Shepherd has also found a Namibian ship catching endangered toothfish in the same area:

Although the Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin is down in these waters pursuing the Japanese whaling fleet, we discovered today (February 23rd) two vessels engaged in deploying deep set longlines to exploit Toothfish....

No whales were killed today. I wish we could say the same for the Toothfish.

Click to expand...

http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080223_3.html

Anti-whaling people, using this Australian territorial water claim to criticize the Japanese whaling expedition is really not a good strategy. There is no way any convincing argument can be made based on this claim. I don't think even Australian government is as crazy to build a case like this in the international setting.

Now, let's take a look. This is where the whalers are:

maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-62+30',+96+58'&ie=UTF8&ll=-16.636192,107.929688&spn=122.702865,231.679688&z=2

More interestingly, I did some back-of-envelope calculations regarding the validity of the Sea Shepherd statement. I am a bit disappointed in fact.

Let's assume and accept that Australia indeed owns about half of Antarctica. In this case, the relevant Australian coastline seems to lie right on the Antarctic Circle which is located at 66 degrees 34 minutes South. Now the whalers were at 62 degrees 30 minutes. So the distance from the claimed Australian land is about 4 degrees of longitude. The radius of Earth is about 6371km, so this is about 445km off the coast, or, about 240 nautical miles. Does a different standard (than 12nm) apply to Antarctica?

Of course I could be dead wrong and I'd appreciate it if someone can correct me. But this shows that no matter how you look at this Antarctic territorial claim, the whalers are not in the Australian territory. Sticking to Southern Whale Sanctuary as the basis of criticism is far better an idea.

Sarapva said:

The Japanese are whaling in Australian waters:
http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080223_2.html
But the latest news from the Sea Shepherd is that they've chased them out of the Australian territory:

Click to expand...

Violation of territorial waters of a sovereign nation is an extremely serious act against a nation, especially if the offending vessels are whaling ships that the Australian government is so frustrated about. If they really have a case, they are the first to send Navy fleets and Airforce to detain them.

If you seriously believe what the crazy eco-terrorist organization say, without any rational analysis on the basis or the consequences of what they claim, I must say that your judgement is severely impaired. I'd love to see any major mainstream media (like Reuters and AP) supporting such a claim who would be the first to jump at such a huge diplomatic mess.

I would not be surprised, if all that was/is handled more silently at the moment. . .

Chi65 said:

I would not be surprised, if all that was/is handled more silently at the moment. . .

Click to expand...

You should be. At least the Australian people should be furious at their powerless and useless government that lets, of all ships, Japanese whaling fleets invade "their territory". If this were to occur in the US waters, the Coast Guard would shoot at the ships to disable them. The common sense says that Australia has no claim whatsoever on the sea where Japanese ships were whaling.

kame said:

If the Japanese vessels really are in Australian waters, the Australian navy would come and detain them. The fact that they are silent means that Japanese are operating outside Australian territory, period.

Click to expand...

Did you bother to read my original post?

Why bother not reading and simply posting your own thought's..

You also appear to ignore the important info. that Sara posted.

The whalers have been operating illegaly inside Australian claimed waters.. I'm really sorry, but it is a fact, and a serious one at that.

Australia is building a case against the illegal activities on all fronts and the courts will hand down justice.

Japan, as has been proven over the years around the world, is an EXTREMELY difficult country to get any co-operation from.

They see their way, their way is correct, they do not care less or listen to other opinions, friends or not, and at the end of the day, what Japan wants, that's all that counts..

Ignore everyone else mentality..

kame said:

You should be. At least the Australian people should be furious at their powerless and useless government that lets, of all ships, Japanese whaling fleets invade "their territory". .

Click to expand...

We do very much care, do not worry about that, however, we believe in diplomacy and that is what we have been targetting over the years. Unfortunately, as is so common with Japan, they are not interested. Concrete made up minds mentality.. Like I said, the Illegal Japan whaling issues will eventually be brought down by the courts.
Japan will have it's day!

Kyoto Returnee said:

We do very much care, do not worry about that, however, we believe in diplomacy and that is what we have been targetting over the years. Unfortunately, as is so common with Japan, they are not interested. Concrete made up minds mentality.. Like I said, the Illegal Japan whaling issues will eventually be brought down by the courts.
Japan will have it's day!

Click to expand...

I don't know how you can be so naive about the diplomacy, but as butakun kindly analyzed the geography, the Australian Antactic waters that SS is referring to is not internationally recognized and Australia has no chance in hell claiming it as their territory in the international forum. The fact that the Australian government keeps their silence is because they know full well that they have no case, and trying to question the legality of their territory would backfire. Japan and other whaling countries would love to have the territorial issue brought to international court, although I highly doubt that will happen.

kame said:

Australia has no chance in hell claiming it as their territory in the international forum. The fact that the Australian government keeps their silence is because they know full well that they have no case, and trying to question the legality of their territory would backfire. Japan and other whaling countries would love to have the territorial issue brought to international court, although I highly doubt that will happen.

Click to expand...

I can hear you, and diplomacy is best, taking into consideration Japan and Australia have a strong friendship, although I believe Australia will only take so much for the sake of supplying rice.

Once again, they don't keep their silence. Diplomacy first, courts later my friend.

I will be surprised if Australia brings a case against Japan in any international court.

First of all, the rest of the anti-whaling nations basically accept that Japan is not doing anything illegal in terms of international law, which is of prime significance here. New Zealand's position is that there are no legal avenues by which to take Japan to court, and the USA and French governments said late last year that they recognise Japan's rights to conduct the research whaling (although they would prefer Japan did not do so). It seems that Australia would be all on it's own if it decided to take the matter to court.

Secondly, Japan has a clear cut argument in it's favour - Article VIII of the ICRW (to which Australia is party) recognises the right of all signatory states to issue scientific permits as they see fit, essentially outside the scope of the rest of the ICRW. This is what Japan is doing, and as much as Australia does not like it, it does not change the fact in terms of international law. Australia publicly may like jaw on with rhetoric such as "research whaling is commercial whaling in disguise", but such rhetoric is very unlikely to be upheld in a court of law, and is basically impossible to proove.

Thirdly, Australia has previously taken Japan to court over a dispute regarding southern bluefin tuna. On that occassion Japan was conducting a research fishing programme, which Australia and New Zealand disagreed with. It was eventually thrown out of the court because (as I understand it) the court decided it had no jurisdiction over the matter (they were basically told to resolve the disagreement by themselves). This case set a legal precedent that would likely be of relevance in the case of whaling as well. Also, if Australia seriously believes it has a case against Japan's whaling programme, then maintaining diplomatic relations isn't really a likely excuse for not going ahead with it, as they have taken Japan to court in the past with respect to southern bluefin tuna. Why would whaling be different to tuna? Japan has been conducting research whaling for 20 years now, yet it was a matter of months rather than years on the occassion that Australia took Japan to court over tuna. Does Australia care less about whales than it does about tuna? Economically this is probably the case, but certainly not emotionally. So why else wouldn't they take them to court over whaling, when they did take them to court over tuna?

The obvious answer is that they don't believe they could win a case on whaling. Taking photos of them killing whales in the Antarctic was nothing more than a PR exercise - Japan is providing more than enough evidence of it's operations that could be used in a court case if their activities were believed to be illegal. They submit reports to the IWC every year detailing how many whales they took and the location from which they were taken. In the Australian domestic case, the HSI indeed used documents submitted by Japan as part of their evidence of whaling in the so-called "Australian Antarctic Sanctuary". There's no reason it couldn't be used in an international case as well - the difference is between Australian law and International law.

Politicians say things to get in to power. If you compare what the Rudd govt said it would do about whaling prior to the election with what they have been saying recently, the difference is evident. They are trying to back away from their promises without making it obvious that that is what they are doing. Their recent retreat to talking about "considering" a court case is a part of this. The next step is they will sometime announce "we have looked at the evidence but think it may be too risky to go to court", or they simply won't ever announce it and just hope that the enough of the public forgets about it to safely ignore it and keep the status quo.

Australian politics is not so much about stopping whaling as it is maintaining their anti-whaling stance. This is the political reality, so if you are hoping they do take Japan to court, my guess is that you'll be disappointed. Personally, I would be very happy if I am wrong, as I fully expect any case from Australia to be thrown out without too much fuss at all. Japan has the relevant international law on it's side, and Australia not likely this fact does not change this fact.

MadamePapillon said:

Why do they go into Australian waters when they know it is illegal and Australia is so opposed to whaling. Wouldn't it be wiser to stick to Japanese waters rather than risk the fire of the international anti-whaling community?
I just don't understand them.

Click to expand...

Because most Whales that lived in the Japanese seas are fished to death. Speak for youself!!!

Whaling - Steve Irwin

This guy was kicked out of green peace & peta for being too radical. That should tell you something. He gets alot of young misguided kids to follow him. He reminds me of Charles Manson. Those kids look at him like he is a God. Recently I saw where he talked 2 crew mbrs into boarding a Japanese vessel, then reported to the Australian government that they were taken hostage by the Japanese. He basically is trying to force his will on others. Isn't it communist to force your will upon the people. You either believe there way or die. I don't like whaling. Dolphins & whales are mammals & remind me too much of people in there ways. They are very humanlike. I wish people didn't kill these beautiful animals, but they do. It still doesn't give Steve Irwin the right to do what he does. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
The Aleutians kill whales too, but I don't see him going after them. The guy is crazy.

This guy was kicked out of green peace & peta for being too radical. That should tell you something. He gets alot of young misguided kids to follow him. He reminds me of Charles Manson. Those kids look at him like he is a God. Recently I saw where he talked 2 crew mbrs into boarding a Japanese vessel, then reported to the Australian government that they were taken hostage by the Japanese. He basically is trying to force his will on others. Isn't it communist to force your will upon the people. You either believe there way or die. I don't like whaling. Dolphins & whales are mammals & remind me too much of people in there ways. They are very humanlike. I wish people didn't kill these beautiful animals, but they do. It still doesn't give Steve Irwin the right to do what he does. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
The Aleutians kill whales too, but I don't see him going after them. The guy is crazy.
---------

I agree with you in many ways. I'm against whaling and there should be something to put a stop into this but this type of behavour against Japan and Japanese people are unacceptable.

If they have to make people suffer to save the whales then they have no right to save any whales.

I am so glad there are others out there that can see the truth.
This guy is dangerous. He could start a war between Japan & Australia.
He lied saying the Japanese boat took his shipmates hostage, when in fact they boarded there boat like pirates. I don't believe he is doing this to save whales. I think it is all about him feeling powerful. He has power on that ship over all those kids on board, and they look to him for direction.
I am mad at the TV station for airing this as a show. He is a mad man.