Ishihara: 'Best if N. Korea Becomes Part of China'

Adulado · 17 Jan 2009

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Asia/Story/STIStory_325573.html

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum.

Mikawa Ossan · 17 Jan 2009

My opinion is that it's an interesting idea, but it'll never happen, and even if it did, it would be untenable at best.

Given Korea's history, I can't imagine that either the North or South would willingly become under the sovereignty of another country. Too many identity issues would come into issue.

Astroboy · 17 Jan 2009

Adulado said:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Asia/Story/STIStory_325573.html

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum.

I think it is best because ....

1. Korean penisular was historically tributary area of China, except some periods of Japanese annexation. So historic tie is very strong, and many Chinese with Korean background live in the neighbouring area in China. Maybe political leaders of NK do not like China, but should be all right on a private level.

2. China spent millions of lives in the Korean War, including sons of Chairman Mao. Plus Chinese communist government had provided NK with economic supports & militaristic supports for long time. Theoretically China will not like to release NK to South Korea or others as USA does not like to release South Korea.

3. From the Japanese perspective, concern about NK is "abduction issue" & "nukes" ONLY. Japan does not care about North Korea itself. I believe it is the best if China annex North Korea ... as the Chinese government is much NORMAL than unpredictable NK government.... Japan can talk with China.

4. On top of that, majority of Japanese don't care about political status of South Korea. So as far as China controls North Korea well and not come down to the South, it is the best at least to Japan.

Adulado · 17 Jan 2009

Astroboy said:
I think it is best because ....
1. Korean penisular was historically tributary area of China, except some periods of Japanese annexation. So historic tie is very strong, and many Chinese with Korean background live in the neighbouring area in China. Maybe political leaders of NK do not like China, but should be all right on a private level.

Nonsense

2. China spent millions of lives in the Korean War, including sons of Chairman Mao. Plus Chinese communist government had provided NK with economic supports & militaristic supports for long time. Theoretically China will not like to release NK to South Korea or others as USA does not like to release South Korea.

nonsense

4. On top of that, majority of Japanese don't care about political status of South Korea. So as far as China controls North Korea well and not come down to the South, it is the best at least to Japan.

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?

Astroboy · 17 Jan 2009

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?

I think I said .... As far as China annex North Korea only, it is good for Japan. N Koreas are starved to death everyday. So physically impossible, I think.

In the meanwhile, "nonsense" is meaningless. You should indicate why you believe it "nonsense".

JerseyBoy · 17 Jan 2009

Adulado said:
Nonsense

nonsense

Why should that be of your concern that N. Koreans move to the South?

I think Astro is a son of the Ishihara character. His replies are as bizarre as they can be (based on his other comments on the forum, I am not surprised).

Adulado · 17 Jan 2009

Astroboy said:
I think I said .... As far as China annex North Korea only, it is good for Japan. N Koreas are starved to death everyday. So physically impossible, I think.

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

In the meanwhile, "nonsense" is meaningless. You should indicate why you believe it "nonsense".

I won't answer, you already know.

JerseyBoy · 17 Jan 2009

Adulado said:
So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?.

I don't know how his brain is wired, to be frank with you. From the global political and economic perspective, North Korea's only bargaining chip is its nuclear weapon development. If NK collapses (I think it is when not if, as there is no economy in NK to speak of), UN and other regional players need to grapple with the refugee issue and reconstruction of the country.

Japan is not a savvy diplomat in the international stage. So, its role would be subservient to USA, UN, and China. If you put J-PMs(the current and previous ones) on the western media, they would be eaten alive by the interviewers.

caster51 · 18 Jan 2009

So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."?

it is impossible.. both contries have no ability like Germany ..

Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

he dose not want to be involved in them.
that is Japan learnt..

Astroboy · 18 Jan 2009

Adulado said:
So how about instead saying " if N. Korea unify with the South it'll be good for Japan."? Wasn't the latest visit of Taro Aso to Korea about the concern of increasing qinese political and economic influence in the region?

As far as I know, North Korea is starved to death. And since cold war ended, NK has become a lonely wolf as China and Russia don't support North Korea anymore. In fact North Korea still uses weaponds of the times of Korean War. AS they know that NK militalistic strength is nearly nothing, they need to rely on Nuke, which is only a hope of NK to survive.

In the meanwhile, both South Korea and China are VERY good customer of Japan, and they fully rely on Japanese technologies. Thus, leaders of Japan, SK ad China are having regular meeting, arn't they?

Astroboy · 18 Jan 2009

JerseyBoy said:
I don't know how his brain is wired, to be frank with you. From the global political and economic perspective, North Korea's only bargaining chip is its nuclear weapon development. If NK collapses (I think it is when not if, as there is no economy in NK to speak of), UN and other regional players need to grapple with the refugee issue and reconstruction of the country.

Japan is not a savvy diplomat in the international stage. So, its role would be subservient to USA, UN, and China. If you put J-PMs(the current and previous ones) on the western media, they would be eaten alive by the interviewers.

I don't understand you well, but it is always good for Japan NOT to be savvy in the international politics. I don't think that Savvy USA/Russia/UK/CHina are Happy. Keeping distance from "Savvy" countries is always good.

I repeat that the key is .... it is BEST if China annex North Korea as China will take all responsibilities about NK as well as NK issues, including food aids, nukes, abduction issues, etc. China is much normal than North Korean goverment, and instead of such responsibilities, let China enslave North Korea.
It must be the best solution even to the ordinary people of North Korea.

Adulado · 18 Jan 2009

↑ Sorry, there's nothing to which I can respond coherently as you sound so forceful or should I say defying common sense?

caster51 said:
it is impossible.. both contries have no ability like Germany ..
he dose not want to be involved in them.
that is Japan learnt..

By what standards, by Japanese ones? Then it might be so.

Astroboy · 18 Jan 2009

I think it is best because ....

5. Unification of Korean penisular (either unified by North or unfied by South) is not good for China and Japan, considering "Nature of Korean". So it is best to be divided at least or annexed by China (including Korean autonomous region).

I think Japan, USA and China will be in a full agreement for "Divided Korea"

Adulado · 18 Jan 2009

Astroboy said:
I think it is best because ....
5. Unification of Korean penisular (either unified by North or unfied by South) is not good for China and Japan, considering "Nature of Korean". So it is best to be divided at least or annexed by China (including Korean autonomous region).
I think Japan, USA and China will be in a full agreement for "Divided Korea"

I'm not getting it, you mean by then having a greater qinese threat next to Japan?

Astroboy · 18 Jan 2009

Adulado said:
I'm not getting it, you mean by then having a greater qinese threat next to Japan?

I am wondering ... why you say "qinese", instead of Chinese.

China is ALREADY Greater China, isn't it? It does not matter With Half of Korea or Not. Plus, South Korea is there in-between Japan and China. Let South Korea face China.

So China is not a threat to Japan, but threat to South Korea.

On top of that, both China and South Korea are good customers for Japan. Let's consider them as "customers" instead of threat.

JerseyBoy · 18 Jan 2009

Astroboy said:
I don't understand you well, but it is always good for Japan NOT to be savvy in the international politics. I don't think that Savvy USA/Russia/UK/CHina are Happy. Keeping distance from "Savvy" countries is always good.
I repeat that the key is .... it is BEST if China annex North Korea as China will take all responsibilities about NK as well as NK issues, including food aids, nukes, abduction issues, etc. China is much normal than North Korean goverment, and instead of such responsibilities, let China enslave North Korea.
It must be the best solution even to the ordinary people of North Korea.

Your comment sounds like an random incoherent thought. Maybe a language issue you have with English... Or, it could be your fundamental lapse of logical thinking...
Also, the abduction issue is of no importance to anyone outside Japan.

caster51 · 19 Jan 2009

North korea and china are silent now about Ishihara's opinion.
then ,,

i mean there is no reaction about it from china and North korea
He might have been looking forward to the reaction of North Korea.
a reaction tells that China is unpleasant

North korean econmy, militaly and politics are already under china,
China has already obtained a lot of rights in North Korea.
Moreover, most of goods that circulate to North Korea is the Chinese product
so is currency..
and histrical issue about koguryo..
noth korea never complained about it.
North Korea cannot act against China.

however , why is North Korea existence still as the country.?
It is an easy story. It is because of convenience for China.
There is no material of the negotiation to USA ,etc for China without existence named North Korea.
China is having dealings by it with the United States and Japan.
today, it is not imperial era, that is why china can not declare loudly
" China annexed the territory in North Korea to China. "
China is declaring that China immediately intervenes it even if the United
Nations doesn't judge it if there is an accident in North Korea.

successor's person is not still clarified in north korea.
The preparation for reception that assumes putting in to the territory in China seems to be progressing in North Korea with steady steps.

Ishihara says to retiredness that "China should merge North Korea"
His true intention thinks that "China should absorb the Korean Peninsura"

Both north and south korea say '' korean unification" like a prayer.
however they hate each other, and rhey dont want to unify..
There is no intention that South Korea also annexes.

according to chosun newspaper, Obama said "Japan is an ally. South korea is a friendly nation "
If China hopes, the nuance that South Korea also gives China is included for the United States that attaches importance to diplomacy toward China.
China wants to absorb a Korean peninsula in the real intention.
There is basically not an objection in that in the United States either.
Japan thinks China is better than North and south Korea as neighboring country though It makes a troubles for Japan.

The Takeshima problem might be solved, too. ?
it is said "All origins of China are South Korea."
This theory becomes a just argument if absorbed to China.
The excuse became possible though South Korea was groping for the introduction of the disliked Chinese character, too.
south and north korean union of earnest wish "is achieved, too.
If Korean peninsula is annexed by China, it can solve all problem of northeast Asia all at once.

Adulado · 19 Jan 2009

ﾂ?ｪ Stop babbling according to your opinions.

JerseyBoy · 19 Jan 2009

caster51 said:
North korea and china are silent now about Ishihara's opinion.
then ,,
i mean there is no reaction about it from china and North korea
He might have been looking forward to the reaction of North Korea.

I don't think anyone outside Tokyo (or Japan) pays attention to what Ishihara (or most of other Japanese politicians) says .

Emoni · 19 Jan 2009

I'm starting to get the feeling that this very thread is 100% uneducated opinion...

Astroboy · 19 Jan 2009

Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences

The Chinese Academy has already identified that North Korea was a part of CHINA in its research projects, called Northeast Project.

This project applies the ideology of Zhonghua Minzu to ancient ethnic groups, states and history of the region of Manchuria and northern Korea

Under the Zhonghua Minzu ideology, it is assumed that there was a greater Chinese state in the ancient past. Accordingly, any pre-modern people or states that occupied any part of what is now the People's Republic of China are defined as having been part of that greater Chinese state.

Similar projects have been conducted on Tibet and Xinjiang, which have been named Southwest Project and Northwest Project, respectively.

Due to its claims on Gojoseon, Goguryeo and Balhae, the project sparked disputes with Korea.

In 2004, this dispute threatened to lead to diplomatic disputes between the People's Republic of China and the Republic of Korea, although all governments involved seem to exhibit no desire to see the issue damage relations. However, there has been a shift from anti-American and pro-China to a pro-American and anti-China in Korea as a strategic move.

The Northeast Project quickly caught the attention of the Korean press and caused a massive public outrage in Korea. In response, China blocked access to Chinese language websites protesting China's claims on Goguryeo. It is also suspected that the Chinese government was responsible for the shutdown of a popular Korean Chinese community website, where there was active criticism against the Chinese government's claims on Goguryeo.
Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences - Wikipedia

In short, China has already defines .... North Korea was a part of Greater China, while South Korea denies it. And I fully agree with the Chinese academy

So, what Ishihara said is exactly in line with the Chinese Academy.

caster51 · 19 Jan 2009

I don't think anyone outside Tokyo (or Japan) pays attention to what Ishihara (or most of other Japanese politicians) says

Why is he popular among foreigners?
China and korea loved him..
anyway.
it was a big news in south korea...

then

So what do you think, specially Japanese readers?

update: I didn't see there was already a thread about this on another sub-forum

JerseyBoy · 19 Jan 2009

caster51 said:
Why is he popular among foreigners?
China and korea loved him..
anyway.
it was a big news in south korea...
then

He is just a clown in the eye of non-nationalist Japanese (ie. Japanese with the overseas education, non Japanese, and common-sense Japanese with good jobs). He is like Aso who tends to exhibit the foot-in-the-mouth gaffe. I think S. Korea does not like Japan that much due to the war time atrocities Japan inflicted on them. Nationalism comes out of past national humiliation.

JerseyBoy · 19 Jan 2009

Astroboy said:
In short, China has already defines .... North Korea was a part of Greater China, while South Korea denies it. And I fully agree with the Chinese academy
So, what Ishihara said is exactly in line with the Chinese Academy.

How can you reach that decision based on one institution? The fact the academy is part of the Chinese communist party apparatus does not necessary mean it represents the official Chinese government's opinion.

I am not sure of the timing of Ishi's comment. But, is it possible his comment is after this academy made an announcement? I don't know Ishi too much; but, he does not come across to me as a person who is well versed in the international affairs (he is just a lowly Tokyo gov.).

caster51 · 20 Jan 2009

I think S. Korea does not like Japan that much due to the war time atrocities Japan inflicted on them

what happend?

How can you reach that decision based on one institution? The fact the academy is part of the Chinese communist party apparatus does not necessary mean it represent the official Chinese government's opinion.

I am not sure of the timing of Ishi's comment. But, is it possible his comment is after this academy made an announcement? I don't know Ishi too much; but, he does not come across to me as a person who is well versed in the international affairs (he is just a lowly Tokyo gov.).

china is correct in this case
Ishihara is a chairman of kidnapped family in Japan
He can say about this matter loudly
I think he is more famous because of a brother of Yujiro

Ishihara: 'Best if N. Korea Becomes Part of China'

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