chaining na-adjectives

qbicc · 11 Jul 2017

Hello everyone,
Right now I'm repeating the guide to Japanese that Tae Kim wrote, because the first time i read it, i read it too fast and not everything became part of my memory properly.
In his lecture about adjectives he starts applying noun+adjective combinations to other nouns like in this sentence:
魚が好きな人。
Person that likes fish.
I was wondering if it would be correct to chain that part even more, for example like this:
私は魚が好きな人が好きだ。
I like Person that likes fish.

Or even like this?:
魚が好きな人が好きな人。
Person that likes person that likes fish.

Would those two examples that i created be grammatically correct?

nice gaijin · 11 Jul 2017

reads
*squints*
yes, that works. Japanese is wonderfully modular in that you can even use an entire clause to describe a noun,
数年前魚人だった人、
魚と結婚した男、
のりに包まれてる赤ちゃん、

All of the bolded parts modify the noun that follows, and is simply treated as an adjective.

qbicc · 11 Jul 2017

Yay, thanks a lot for for your reply. And also for those additional examples!
(By the way: I haven't been to many forums before starting to learn Japanese recently. Should I generally avoid writing a thank you reply like this? Since the thread will be in front again without really containing new information)

nice gaijin · 11 Jul 2017

it never hurts to thank people for taking the time to help you. If anything it's more common to wonder whether the original poster even bothered to come back and check our answers, as we never hear from them again.

qbicc · 11 Jul 2017

Okay, I will keep continue posting thank you replies then. I guess what I mentioned is more a problem in extremely busy forums anyway.

OoTmaster · 11 Jul 2017

Thank you replies or any reply really is appreciated. First because it lets the person answering your question know that you read their response. Second and most importantly it gives you an opportunity for clarification if you're not sure you understood everything entirely. Sometimes it's best to respond with an example of what the member helped you with as well as it can show whether you understood the explanation.

qbicc · 11 Jul 2017

OoTmaster said:
Sometimes it's best to respond with an example of what the member helped you with as well as it can show whether you understood the explanation.

And also applying the new learned stuff is a great way to memorize it.
Thank you for that reply, I will definitely do that in the future. (Not in this case since my examples where already confirmed in the beginning.)

mdchachi · 11 Jul 2017

For a quick thank you with no added comment I recommend using the thank you button.

Toritoribe · 12 Jul 2017

Incidentally, @ the OP, not only na-adjectives but also i-adjectives or verbs can be used like that, as in nice gaijin-san's examples.

鱗が小さい魚を食べる猫が嫌いな人
a person who dislikes a cat that eats a fish whose scales are small

Toritoribe · 12 Jul 2017

Sorry for double posting, but I forgot to point out a problem in "chaining modifying clause".

Actually, my example 鱗が小さい魚を食べる猫が嫌いな人 can have another meaning; a person who eats a fish whose scales are small, and (who) dislikes a cat. In this interpretation, the clause 鱗が小さい魚を食べる modifies 人, not 猫. A comma is often inserted after 食べる in this case (鱗が小さい魚を食べる、猫が嫌いな人), and the meaning is often obvious from the context, but you need to pay attention to this problem when making or reading these types of structure. In fact, the same goes to your example 魚が好きな人が好きな人. This can mean "a person who likes fish and people" (魚が好きな、人が好きな人). Other expressions 魚と人が好きな人 or 魚が好きで、人も好きな人 are far more commonly used for this meaning, though.

qbicc · 12 Jul 2017

Toritoribe said:
Sorry for double posting, but I forgot to point out a problem in "chaining modifying clause".

Don't worry about it and thanks for making that stuff clear
So how would you emphasize that if you where talking instead of writing? Would you make a break where the comma would be or would you maybe assume the person will understand it by context?

nice gaijin · 13 Jul 2017

Context is king in Japanese, but you probably wouldn't run into too many examples of descriptives that complex chained in spoken Japanese; it feels more like something you'd see in a novel. The fact that you can stretch grammar structures and make all kinds of complex sentences doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to communicate. A good example of this in English would be Harry Frankfurt's treatise, On Bullsh*t (warning, strong but hilarious language)

qbicc · 13 Jul 2017

nice gaijin said:
The fact that you can stretch grammar structures and make all kinds of complex sentences doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to communicate.

Guess you have a point there and since my main goal is to build communication skills, I should maybe focus more on the simpler grammar, vocabulary and examples of spoken language.
I may look into your bullshit link (lol), but only if i can find the time. At least I saved it as a bookmark.

Toritoribe · 13 Jul 2017

qbicc said:
since my main goal is to build communication skills, I should maybe focus more on the simpler grammar, vocabulary and examples of spoken language.

Yeah, that's better. In fact, the speaker would choose other expressions to avoid being misunderstood if they think it's confusing, for instance 鱗が小さい魚を食べてて、猫が嫌いな人 for a person who eats a fish whose scales are small, and (who) dislikes a cat (the -te form can't modify a noun).

chaining na-adjectives

qbicc

Kouhai

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

qbicc

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nice gaijin

Resident Realist

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OoTmaster

先輩

qbicc

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mdchachi

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

qbicc

Kouhai

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

qbicc

Kouhai

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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