Bi-cultural Children

Masamune_74 · 26 Jul 2007

I recently read another post on another website that I browse frequently and I thought this could be a good discussion topic here. There I was reading a post from an individual that was bi-cultural, Japanese and American. He said that he was strongly against bi-cultural children/marriages because of certain discriminations he faced while being raised in Japan as a bi-cultural child. So my question to those of you out there that may be "experts," as you may also be a bi-cultural offspring, is what is your feeling on this matter?

Along with this what is your opinion on bi-cultural children that go to Japanese public schools, or if you had this experience what is your view?

I am asking because I am currently engaged to a Japanese citizen and I had never looked at it from this point of view before. Any opinions you have on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Cash · 27 Jul 2007

Interesting (and probably entirely accurate) that the individual you refer to attributed the problem to being bi-cultural and not bi-racial.

Or is "bi-cultural" being used in a euphemistic, politically correct sort of way in order to avoid mention of race?

I am American, my wife is Japanese. Our children were born and raised in Japan. They're Japanese citizens and monolingual Japanese speakers. In other words: They're bi-racial, but not bi-cultural.

They attend local public schools and we've never had the first minute of trouble. One is in the second year of junior high and the other is in the sixth grade.

Half-n-Half · 27 Jul 2007

Interracial relations are perfectly fine IMHO. Kids will be kids and they will pick on anybody for being different. I have heard of instances where "bi-cultural" kids were picked on in school because they looked different or had funny names. Looking at Mike Cash's post, though, it seems these discriminations are isolated and/or not that common. I guess it just depends on their classmates.
As for me I am half American and half Japanese and have never been picked on for being "different". I was raised in the US of A, though, so I can't really speak for bi-racial kids raised in Japan.

maushan3 · 27 Jul 2007

Half-n-Half said:
As for me I am half American and half Japanese and have never been picked on for being "different". I was raised in the US of A, though, so I can't really speak for bi-racial kids raised in Japan.

That's because, there is no "different" in the United States. This is the only country, along with Canada that is almost made up entirely of people from all over the world, so I don't think it is the same to be in a classroom where there are over 9 ethnicites than being in a school where there's only one gaijin.

Mauricio

Half-n-Half · 27 Jul 2007

maushan3 said:
That's because, there is no "different" in the United States. This is the only country, along with Canada that is almost made up entirely of people from all over the world, so I don't think it is the same to be in a classroom where there are over 9 ethnicites than being in a school where there's only one gaijin.
Mauricio

That's exactly what I was saying in my last sentence and when I put "different" in quotations. Sorry if it was a little vague.

Masamune_74 · 27 Jul 2007

Thanks a ton for those of you that have replied, this is the kind of discussion I was looking for. Mike in my case my future wife and I want to make sure our sons/daughters are bi-lingual. I feel that it would be much easier to raise and school our children in Japan and teach them English at home (I am a teacher) to supplement what they learn in the public schools in Japan.
To answer your question I was trying to be P.C. and non-offensive with my language. Although you make a good point that there is indeed a difference between bi-racial and bi-cultural.

Glenski · 27 Jul 2007

My kid is almost 4. He is practically bilingual, despite having grown up completely in Japan. I'm his only source of English, too. So far, no discrimination against him (other than the incessant "kawaii" shrieks we get from young women who see him for the first time), but I expect to experience some later in his life. Will deal with it then.

Bullying is only part of the problems bicultural kids face in Japan, and it should not be minimalized as "occasional instances". Just read somewhere that a bicultural kid in high school was forced to dye his/her hair color to the "standard acceptable Japanese black". Unbelievable.

ET_Fukuoka · 27 Jul 2007

My son is 2 months old and we are considering going back to Japan in Jan 2008. I am in Hawaii now so everyone and their uncle "mixed" with something or another. I really want him to be able to read and write in Japanese, so Japan would be the best place of course. On the other hand I want him to be an excellent English speaker as well. As for the Bullying you just got to teach him some jujitsu ;-)

bakaKanadajin · 27 Jul 2007

I was raised the opposite way.. I was raised in Canada as a Japanese-Canadian blood-wise, but I only spoke English until recently. My mother spoke English fluently, and since my father was of British descent and English was his only language, Japanese just wasn't spoken around the house really. I'm studying it now, and while I muse to myself how much easier it'd be if I'd learned from childhood, I can't say I'd be the same person now, so it's futile to regret it. I'm enjoying learning anyway.

I will say though, as a child, since I didn't look 100% white, it made growing up tough since I was raised 'white' and I felt that I was. Not integrating 100% with peers is a tough thing for a kid, so I can understand the concern a parent may have in a largely homogenous society like Japan. Because it was Canada, I think despite a few instances I had a very smooth ride. It's amusing now to return to Japan because to 99% of the Japanese people I'm a gaijin. To 50-75% of gaijin however they can tell I have something in me. I've been pegged as many different things, ranging from Hawaiian to one of the Russian/East Asian border countries like Kazakhstan or one of the other 'stan' countries.

That being said, however, I still think raising a biracial or multilingual child is a huge one-up over children with no second language or culture. If I end up marrying a woman who speaks a second language I'll definitely want that language to be used in the household. Most likely it'd be Japanese if anything. I think if a child has two ethnicities it's great to embrace both, it's a great experience to have two cultures to learn from and draw on as they get older and wish to develop themselves and their ideas.

KirinMan · 27 Jul 2007

There I was reading a post from an individual that was bi-cultural, Japanese and American. He said that he was strongly against bi-cultural children/marriages because of certain discriminations he faced while being raised in Japan as a bi-cultural child.

I hope someone on that board reminded him that if it wasnt for his parents he wouldn't be around to make comments like this. Just because he had "difficulties" as a child doesn't put everyone else in the same boat either as you surely know.

I have three children, my wife is Japanese and I am American, 2 were born here in Japan and all three were raised here in Japan. They have yet to face any discrimination themselves, my daughter is working at a part time job to save money for college, she is 20 and bilingual, my two sons are still school age and go to a local "American" school and they study Japanese at home.

Being a "double" is something they know, but it isnt a conscious kind of thing, even when on occasion people make ignorant comments about their language abilities. They also enjoy having 2 rather large and extended families, one here in Japan the other in the US.

Even though my two sons do not go to the local schools they participate in numerous community activities and have a large circle of friends as well. In fact they rather like having their "school" friends who are mostly Americans and their "house" friends.

Harun · 27 Jul 2007

maushan3 said:
That's because, there is no "different" in the United States. This is the only country, along with Canada that is almost made up entirely of people from all over the world, so I don't think it is the same to be in a classroom where there are over 9 ethnicites than being in a school where there's only one gaijin.
Mauricio

I know what you mean but that is not completely true --- 90% + are most likely white on their own
as here in England it will seem as though we have many different ethnicities when you enter a particular city, but it is actually 90+% white which was surprising for me at first ... not that there's anything wrong with it LOL but I am just saying America is probably in the same situation with Japan at this point

Masamune_74 · 27 Jul 2007

Harun said:
90% + are most likely white on their own
as here in England it will seem as though we have many different ethnicities when you enter a particular city, but it is actually 90+% white...I am just saying America is probably in the same situation with Japan at this point

Not 100% sure if you actually looked up the statistics on that info, but you can find the actual statistics here:
w w w. census.gov/population/pop-profile/2000/chap08.pdf
(sorry I couldn't get it to link for some reason {You do not have enough posts yet to add URLs to third-party websites}).
Here are the U.S. elementary and high school statistics as of 2000 (I am sure they have changed some since then):
White Non-Hispanic:63.3%
Black: 16.4%
Hispanic 15.4%
Foreign Born: 5.4%
Asian and Pacific Islander: 4.2%
Not so sure about England I just looked up the US. At any rate the point that Maushan3 made; "That's because, there is no "different" in the United States." Is somewhat generalized but over all true. Yes you will find pockets in different areas that are 90%+ white however, coming from a teacher (me) there is a great diversity here as you can see from that info.
All of this points to the fact that it would probably be easier to grow up in the US as a bi-racial child than in Japan. Now I am so interested I think I will go look at Japan's stats.

Masamune_74 · 27 Jul 2007

Thought I would throw out another stat for you stat lovers.
Japanese Ethnic Groups: 99.4% Japanese and 0.6% other, mostly Korean (40.4% of non-Japanese), some Chinese and Filipinos. Ainu, Ryukyuans and hisabetsu buraku constitute native Japanese minority groups. (Demography of Japan, Wikipedia)

Tenshiboy · 27 Jul 2007

Well my fiancéé is japanese, and we are planning to marry in January in Belgium because she will do her study at the university here for about 4 years and after her graduation we planned to move to Japan and to live our life there, because for certain personal reasons it's better for her, and for me it's also no problem.(as it was also my dream to live there since a long time )
When we talked about having childrens we came to the answer that we both wanted to raise our childrens in Japan, but I also asked myself if it would be a problem for them to have a father who is a 窶堋ｪ窶堋ｶ窶堙ｱ...
but I think that everybody has his or her own mentality , I mean, of course old people in Japan has a little more problem to accept that a Japanese women or men marry a 窶堋ｪ窶堋ｶ窶堙ｱ, but younger people accept it more easily, because they are more open to other cultures and countries so i don't think that it would be a big problem for our future childrens.
If we want to raise them in Japan, is because we want them to live, in the Japanese culture, we want them to grow in the same way (almost the same way) of their mother, so they will be perfect japanese boys and girls, but maybe their looking will not be exactly japanese, i mean maybe our childrens will not look like Japanese or Asian, so maybe it will be a little bit difficult for others to accept that, even if we don't care about how people thinks, our childrens will care about it, so it's kind of question i ask myself several times, because i want our childrens to grow up normally without any problems or weird looking by the society.

My fiancée says there will be no problem because she already saw herself A LOT of 窶堋ｪ窶堋ｶ窶堙ｱ having babies and childrens going to public schools without having any problems or weird looking by the society,
but is it really everywhere like that in Japan, or only in big city's like 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ , that's what i wanted to know.

Because yes i we want to live in 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ, but maybe our way of thinking or our ideas will change , so maybe we will want to live in other city's like 窶卍ｷ窶禿ｬ or 窶卍ｷ窶禿ｬ or even 窶ｹﾅｾﾅｸﾂｷ so i would like to know if the mentality of the people, kids and so on changes with the city or is it really everywhere the same ?

I just want to be sure of the place we will raise up our kids without having any bad memories.

Thank you for your help

maushan3 · 28 Jul 2007

I'm sorry, but I don't understand Kanji yet, but I assume you are talking about living in Tokyo? and I think as long as you have a possitive mentality and raise your children to be mentally strong you could live pretty much anywhere you'd like to, don't let that stop you from living where you want, after all, sooner or later, they might have to face the gaijin problem.

Mauricio

FrustratedDave · 28 Jul 2007

Tenshiboy said:
When we talked about having childrens we came to the answer that we both wanted to raise our childrens in Japan, but I also asked myself if it would be a problem for them to have a father who is a がじん...

I imagine you mean "がいじん"？

Glenski said:
Bullying is only part of the problems bicultural kids face in Japan, and it should not be minimalized as "occasional instances". Just read somewhere that a bicultural kid in high school was forced to dye his/her hair color to the "standard acceptable Japanese black". Unbelievable.

That is a bit harsh and is most likely an isolated case. But Glenski does bring up a good point about bullying, however my boy is quite a few inches bigger than his even the biggest classmates, so he rarely gets bullied. (gets it from his dad, I am about 240 pounds and no I am not fat, I was heavily into sport up until recently) Anyway, these days there is no need for concern in regards to discrimination in most situations towards your bi-racial kids. Yeras ago it was a little bit different, but that is a whole different story.

Glenski · 29 Jul 2007

Tenshiboy said:
Well my fiancéé is japanese, (snip)
When we talked about having childrens we came to the answer that we both wanted to raise our childrens in Japan, (snip)

If we want to raise them in Japan, is because we want them to live, in the Japanese culture, we want them to grow in the same way (almost the same way) of their mother, so they will be perfect japanese boys and girls,

I don't think this is possible. Certainly, you shouldn't count on it, but welcome it if it happens.

My fiancée says there will be no problem

Be afraid of sweeping thoughts like this. What your fiancee saw may not be the case overall.

because she already saw herself A LOT of 窶堋ｪ窶堋ｶ窶堙ｱ having babies and childrens going to public schools without having any problems or weird looking by the society,

And, did your fiancee live with those children 24 hours a day to know exactly what they faced? No. Again, beware.

Glenn · 29 Jul 2007

Tenshiboy said:
Because yes i we want to live in 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ, but maybe our way of thinking or our ideas will change , so maybe we will want to live in other city's like 窶卍ｷ窶禿ｬ or 窶卍ｷ窶禿ｬ or even 窶ｹﾅｾﾅｸﾂｷ so i would like to know if the mentality of the people, kids and so on changes with the city or is it really everywhere the same ?

For those who can't read kanji: 窶愬停?ｹﾅｾ - Tokyo, 窶卍ｷ窶禿ｬ - Nagano (I assume one of them was supposed to be 窶督ｼﾅ津??ｰﾂｮ - Nagoya), and 窶ｹﾅｾﾅｸﾂｷ I'm pretty sure is supposed to be 窶ｹﾅｾ窶徭 - Kyoto (that's 窶堋ｫ窶堙･窶堋､窶堙? not 窶堋ｫ窶堙･窶堋､窶堙??堋､).

DoctorP · 29 Jul 2007

Obeika said:
Being a "double"

I am so glad to see you use this wording and not half!

I have always used "double" to describe my kids and their abilities. To say someone is half, is to suggest that they are not whole, or that they are lacking. I have always told my kids to think of themselves as double. I've also told them that if they were ever teased for being "half" to explain to the perp. that he is not half, that he is double, and that makes him twice as good as the kid doing the teasing! Then to explain to the other child, "what makes you special?, I can read, write, and speak two languages fluently, what can you do?" Then I tell him to repeat the same sentence in English just to confuse them!

If you have children of mixed race, I would hope that you never tell them that they are "half" of anything!

Mike Cash · 29 Jul 2007

I've always avoided both "half" and "double" and thought of my kids as just kids.

Mikawa Ossan · 29 Jul 2007

This whole idea of "double" has never sit with me very well.

I'm half German, quarter Swedish and quarter English, but I would never call myself a "triple".

If the women in this world ever come to their senses and one of them finally decides to marry me and have children together, I don't think I would want to call my child a "double".

He or she will be half Japanese, as much as I am half German.

I used to want to raise my children biculturally, but now I think I've changed my mind. I think Mike Cash's approach of raising biracial kids in a monocultural setting is the best way to go.

FrustratedDave · 29 Jul 2007

Mike Cash said:
I've always avoided both "half" and "double" and thought of my kids as just kids.

This is a good attitude, that I try to take too.

Masamune_74 · 30 Jul 2007

Thanks again to all of you that have posted, you valuable insight(s) have allowed me to augment my own thinking for my situation.

Arigato Gozaimasu!!

GaijinPunch · 30 Jul 2007

(other than the incessant "kawaii" shrieks we get from young women who see him for the first time), but I expect to experience some later in his life. Will deal with it then.

That is the irony, that once you have the kid, the women flock.

I've always avoided both "half" and "double" and thought of my kids as just kids.

I actually refer to my 5-month old son as "Cute, little half-white baby" quite a bit, usually to get a rise out of my wife. However, it's more or less an amalgam of Ricky Bobby's prayer to "cute, little baby Jesus" and Glen's (from Raising Arizona) "Healthy white baby?!?! 5 Years?!?!"

In all actuality, at this point, he looks white. Our friends call him the white boy version of my wife.

I've always avoided both "half" and "double" and thought of my kids as just kids.

With all due respect, would you consider you're not giving them a boost that would arguably open many doors down the road... perhaps even the ability to speak with non-immediate family?

Mike Cash · 30 Jul 2007

GaijinPunch said:
With all due respect, would you consider you're not giving them a boost that would arguably open many doors down the road... perhaps even the ability to speak with non-immediate family?

Circumstances more or less dictated how things turned out with my brood. I don't have the financial means or the free time to schlep them back and forth to "the old country" as most foreigners seem to have. And my work schedule isn't conducive to spending sufficient time with them to maintain their English ability. There is no international school in my area, and even if there were I don't have the dough to send them.

I will point out that the single largest mistake a person wishing to raise bilingual children can make is to ever let the children know you are functional in another language. Children are highly pragmatic and will follow the path of least resistance (read: "effort"). Lectures about the value of having facility in another language in the future fall on deaf ears; kids are all about the here and now. And so long as they know they can communicate with Daddy in Japanese, that's what they're going to do.

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