Basic arimasu/imasu question (Romaji)

Kriffix · 9 May 2008

Hey guys, In a sentence like:
"Ame ga futte imasu"
Why is it "imasu" and not "arimasu"? rain is not a living thing after all. Or is it because it's mobile in this sentence and so is treated as something animate?

Thanks!

Shineko · 9 May 2008

The translation would be: It is raining.

So the futteimasu indicates that something is currently happening, the English -ing form.

If you want to say the -ing form of something, you just take the -te form of the verb and add imasu or iru, depending how polite you want to be.

It has nothing to do with the object being living thing or not. There is not difference between those two objects this time.

nice gaijin · 9 May 2008

~te imasu just denotes the present state of things, or that an action is ongoing. ex: mado ga aite imasu (the window is open)

~te arimasu is used to indicate that the verb has been executed for a purpose. ex: mado ga aite arimasu (the window is open/has been opened [perhaps to let the breeze in].

Kriffix · 9 May 2008

Ah i see! thanks very much guys, that helped a lot!

Elizabeth · 9 May 2008

nice gaijin said:
~te imasu just denotes the present state of things, or that an action is ongoing. ex: mado ga aite imasu (the window is open)

~te arimasu is used to indicate that the verb has been executed for a purpose. ex: mado ga aite arimasu (the window is open/has been opened [perhaps to let the breeze in].

"Aite arimasu" I think you meant "Akete arimasu."

Mado ga akete arimasu (Window was opened by someone -- or there are times the subject is referring to themselves) ??

Mado wo akete arimasu (Window was opened by me).

nice gaijin · 9 May 2008

Elizabeth said:
"Aite arimasu" I think you meant "Akete arimasu."

sorry, yes. ~te arimasu only works for transitive verbs.

MMM · 13 May 2008

Elizabeth said:
"Aite arimasu" I think you meant "Akete arimasu."

Mado ga akete arimasu (Window was opened by someone -- or there are times the subject is referring to themselves) ?? ﾂ

Mado wo akete arimasu (Window was opened by me).

Would you say "Mado wo akete arimasu (Window was opened by me)" or wouldn't you just say "Mado wo akemashita"?

I don't remember hearing this form used this way for yourself. More like "Someone opened the window for a reason"

I would say

"Mado wo akete okimashita" if I was the one that did it, but I worry that might be dialectical.

JimmySeal · 13 May 2008

I believe MMM is correct. I don't think you can say "Mado wo akete aru." it would be "Mado wo akete oita." or "Mado ga akete aru."

Elizabeth · 13 May 2008

JimmySeal said:
I believe MMM is correct. I don't think you can say "Mado wo akete aru." it would be "Mado wo akete oita." or "Mado ga akete aru."

No, you can say Mado (doa...) wo akete aru. Although I admit it isn't as common as ga akete aru or wo akete oku.

At least it's in my text and something I've heard from my tutor, seen on Japanese sites, etc.

MMM · 13 May 2008

Elizabeth said:
No, you can say Mado (doa...) wo akete aru. Although I admit it isn't as common as ga akete aru or wo akete oku.

At least it's in my text and something I've heard from my tutor, seen on Japanese sites, etc.

I am talking about in the situation that YOU (personal) is the DOer.

Elizabeth · 13 May 2008

MMM said:
I am talking about in the situation that YOU (personal) is the DOer.

Yes, that is the situation I am talking about too.

There are also cases the self is the doer and "ga akete aru" is used but I'm going to have to look into that first before getting in another silly argument here.

Toritoribe · 13 May 2008

行為者が話者自身であるかどうかに関わらず、「窓が開けてあります」も「窓を開けてあります」も使えますね。強いて言えば「窓が開けてあります」のほうは叙述的表現、「窓を開けてあります」のほうは主観的表現という感じでしょうか。 (個人的な印象かもしれませんが。)

ちなみに「開けておきました」だと「何かの目的のために閉まっていたものを開けた」というニュアンスが出るのに対して、「開けてあります」のほうは「何かの目的のために開けた状態のままにしている」というところに力点が置かれてますね。

MMM · 14 May 2008

Toritoribe said:
行為者が話者自身であるかどうかに関わらず、「窓が開けてあります」も「窓を開けてあります」も使えますね。強いて言えば「窓が開けてあります」のほうは叙述的表現、「窓を開けてあります」のほうは主観的表現という感じでしょうか。 (個人的な印象かもしれませんが。)

ちなみに「開けておきました」だと「何かの目的のために閉まっていたものを開けた」というニュアンスが出るのに対して、「開けてあります」のほうは「何かの目的のために開けた状態のままにしている」というところに力点が置かれてますね。

どうもありがとう。簡単でClearな説明でした。

Elizabeth · 14 May 2008

Toritoribe said:
行為者が話者自身であるかどうかに関わらず、「窓が開けてあります」も「窓を開けてあります」も使えますね。強いて言えば「窓が開けてあります」のほうは叙述的表現、「窓を開けてあります」のほうは主観的表現という感じでしょうか。 (個人的な印象かもしれませんが。)
ちなみに「開けておきました」だと「何かの目的のために閉まっていたものを開けた」というニュアンスが出るのに対して、「開けてあります」のほうは「何かの目的のために開けた状態のままにしている」というところに力点が置かれてますね。

詳しい説明してくれてありがとうございます！しかし、窓の代わりに、「ドア」を使った例文を次に見てみます。そういう文章を見つけたので。。。

多分、
ドアを開けてある＝ "Door was opened by me"
ドアが開けてある = "Door was opened by someone"

ですが。。。

基本的にこれが正しいですけど。。。

たまに両方の意味が含まれていることがありますね。

特に、「ドアがあけてある」は、基本的には、「誰があけた」ですけど、自分があけても、人に、「ドアがあけてありますから、どうず」という風に表現するときがあるそうですね。

ですから、いつも必ずしも正しいといわけではないでしょうね。。。☝

Kriffix · 14 May 2008

Wow such language skill, it's like watching a battle between Gods.

I tried to keep up for fun but once it went into pure Japanese mode it went right over my head. Still though, very interesting stuff to learn here.

Toritoribe · 14 May 2008

＠Elizabethさん、
完全にinterchangeableだと思いますよ。

ドアを/が開けてありますから、どうぞ家にいらしてください。 (私が開けた。)
私たちがいつ行ってもいいように、ドアを/が開けてあるそうです。(誰かが開けた。)

どれも違和感はないですから。

＠Kriffix-san,
Sorry. I'm the offender.
In English later. I have to go to work.

Kriffix · 14 May 2008

Ah no problem at all! I'm so far away from the point you guys are at, i just feel privelidged to watch. Plus it inspires me to get better, please don't hold back!

quamp · 2 Jun 2008

I have to agree here. However, I'm still not clear about one point.

Elizabeth said:
多分、
ドアを開けてある＝ "Door was opened by me"
ドアが開けてある = "Door was opened by someone"

Why is it aru and not areta? (or is it aretta? I always have trouble determining what group a verb is in.) Since the action has been completed (the door is now open,) shouldn't the past form be used?

Elizabeth · 2 Jun 2008

quamp said:
I have to agree here. However, I'm still not clear about one point.
Why is it aru and not areta? (or is it aretta? I always have trouble determining what group a verb is in.) Since the action has been completed (the door is now open,) shouldn't the past form be used?

Are you talking about 。。。が（を）開けてあった？？ That means the door was open (had been opened) but isn't anymore.

Toritoribe · 3 Jun 2008

quamp said:
Why is it aru and not areta? (or is it aretta? I always have trouble determining what group a verb is in.) Since the action has been completed (the door is now open,) shouldn't the past form be used?

ドアが開いています/開けてあります
The door was opened and is in the state of "open".

ドアが開いていました/開けてありました
The door had been opened and was in the state of "open".

ドアを開けておきます/開けておきました is a bit different.

10時までにドアを開けておきます。
I'll open the door by 10.
(The door is not opened yet.)

あなたが帰ってくるまでドアを開けておきます。 (the same as 開けたままにしておきます。)
I'll keep the door open till you come back.
(The door is in the state of "open".)

「ドアはもう開けたの？」「はい。開けておきました。」
"Have you opened the door?" "Yes. I've already opened."
(The door is in the state of "open".)

暗くなるまでドアを開けておきました。 (the same as 開けたままにしておきました。)
I kept the door open till after dark.
(The door was in the state of "open".)

hope this helps

Basic arimasu/imasu question (Romaji)

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