Adjectives & Time

Tomii515 · 25 Apr 2006

Ok, i knwo there is -i adjectives, and -na adjectives... hwo do you knwo when it i -na and when it is -i?can you give me examples? thanks!

Also, I'm learning to memorise the #'s...and i want to learn how to tell time, but my book doesnt teach you it...how do you tell time in japanese? like, are some #'s different? how do you say hour? minute? second? o' clock? and then could you give me examples...thanks!

cheapshot · 25 Apr 2006

If your book doesn't show you elementary stuff like time, i would suggest getting a second book or replacing that one...
anyway,

how do you know when it i -na

you KNOW in a lot of cases by the ending letter. for example, the majority of "i" adjectives actually end in ...... wait for it ....... surprisingly .... "い". by this i mean い and not the other kana like きしちに etc. etc.
there are obviously a few exceptions to the rule, but i have learned to treat these exceptions as they are, when i meet them. for example:
きらい（な） (dislike // hate)
this adjectives ends with い but is actually a "な" adjective. don't get too hung up on why it is a "な" adjective, just learn that it is and move on is my suggestion. (right or wrong, that's what i do)
"い" adjective examples are：
あかい -- red
すごい -- great
こわい -- scary
むずかしい -- difficult
あたらしい -- new
ふるい -- old
かわいい -- cute
etc...
"な" examples:
げんき（な） -- healthy // fine
ばか（な） -- stupid
べんり（な） -- convenient
as you can see for these few examples, if you right them in romaji, they actually end in an "i" but not if you right them in kana.
ill right about time if no-one else does, i am at work now, so ill check later
y

Glenn · 25 Apr 2006

As for きらい and others like it, knowing that it comes from a verb is a big help.

cheapshot · 25 Apr 2006

ah, i see the verb 嫌う. i didnt realise that myself.

doinkies · 26 Apr 2006

Another na adjective that actually ends in i is きれい（な）. But yeah, don't get all "Huh, why is this a な adjective when it ends in い" - just remember that it is actually な so you don't get confused. ^^

And doinkies would also recommend getting another book, if your book doesn't even teach how to tell time. I think I recommended Genki to you before. If you can't find it, or you end up not liking it, perhaps you might want to use Youkoso! (they spell it Yookoso!) too. That's the book doinkies used in my Japanese classes, and it was all right.

Elizabeth · 26 Apr 2006

doinkies said:
Another na adjective that actually ends in i is きれい（な）. But yeah, don't get all "Huh, why is this a な adjective when it ends in い" - just remember that it is actually な so you don't get confused. ^^

きいろい (yellow) is な I believe as well and maybe some other color names.
Two of the most adjectives ちいさい、おおきい can also take both な and い forms.

doinkies · 26 Apr 2006

Yup...ちいさい (小さい） and おおきい (大きい） have な adjective forms too, ちいさな（小さな） and おおきな (大きな）.

cheapshot · 26 Apr 2006

true elizabeth.

ちいさい or ちいさな
おおきい or おおきな

(for Tomii, in case you are curious. you dont simply add a な to the end of these adjectives)

Elizabeth · 26 Apr 2006

yorkii said:
true elizabeth.
ちいさい or ちいさな
おおきい or おおきな
(for Tomii, in case you are curious. you don't simply add a な to the end of these adjectives)

Actually, they are conjugated like other い's 小さくて、大きくて. Still the な with or without the ending is more common.

cheapshot · 26 Apr 2006

ok, so おおきいな and ちいさいな are both acceptable as well? i didnt realise this.

Glenn · 26 Apr 2006

きいるい is an い-adjective. Lots of times you can tell if you know the kanji:
綺麗（きれい）、黄色い（きいろい）、冷静（れいせい）などなど

And as stated above, if you know that a word is a noun that came from a verb it helps too: きらい、ちがい.

yorkii said:
ok, so おおきいな and ちいさいな are both acceptable as well? i didnt realise this.

No, those are not acceptable; it's either the な form or the い form, not both at the same time.

cheapshot · 26 Apr 2006

didnt think so.

JimmySeal · 26 Apr 2006

Without exception, all -i adjectives end in -ai, -ii, -ui, or -oi. If it ends in -ei or anything else, it's not an -i adjective, but as stated before, not all words with those endings are -i adjectives.

Ooki-na and chiisa-na can only be used to modify nouns, as in "ookina ie - big house." You can't use them at the end of sentences or try to change them into adverbs. This means you can't say:

Ano tatemono wa ooki da.
or
Onryou wo ooki ni shite.

The only exception I know is "Ooki ni (arigatou)." Which is an expression for "thank you" in the kansai region.

Mike Cash · 26 Apr 2006

JimmySeal said:
The only exception I know is "Ooki ni (arigatou)." Which is an expression for "thank you" in the kansai region.

Are you absolutely sure that comes from 大きい?

Elizabeth · 26 Apr 2006

JimmySeal said:
Without exception, all -i adjectives end in -ai, -ii, -ui, or -oi. If it ends in -ei or anything else, it's not an -i adjective, but as stated before, not all words with those endings are -i adjectives.
Ooki-na and chiisa-na can only be used to modify nouns, as in "ookina ie - big house." You can't use them at the end of sentences or try to change them into adverbs. This means you can't say:
Ano tatemono wa ooki da.
or
Onryou wo ooki ni shite.
The only exception I know is "Ooki ni (arigatou)." Which is an expression for "thank you" in the kansai region.

All I meant to convey earlier was that the adjective "ookii ie" is perfectly acceptable even without the "na" ending. It has a slightly different connotation, but the meaning remains "large house." Sorry for any confusion over wording.

patroclus · 26 Apr 2006

黄色 (きいろ) yellow is also a -na adj according to JWPce dictionary.

黄色 can also be read as おうしょく and こうしょく, and both mean yellow, and are -na adjectives. Quite confusing, isn't it?

JimmySeal · 26 Apr 2006

Mike Cash said:
Are you absolutely sure that comes from 大きい?

According to 広辞苑 (which I didn't consult before making that post)
おおきに【大きに】
《副》（室町時代以後の語。文語オホキナリの連用形から）
①非常に。大いに。迷惑なことを非難し、また皮肉にいう時に使う。
②「おおきにありがとう」の略。関西地方などで広く使われる。

So apparently it comes from the same 形容動詞 as 大きな, and it's probably safe to say that both are related to 大きい.

Mukade · 27 Apr 2006

JimmySeal said:
②「おおきにありがとう」の略。関西地方などで広く使われる。

These days you'll usually only hear merchants using this with their customers.
----
And this doesn't exactly help with the い vs. な distinction, but I thought it was interesting enough to note.
It was pointed out to me a while ago that any い adjective ending in -しい tends to relate to human emotions and other subjective observations, whereas simple -い adjectives tend to refer to more objective observations
For example:
-しい → 悲しい、嬉しい、寂しい、怪しい
-い → 高い、赤い、長い、小さい
Well, I thought it was neat anyway.

Glenn · 27 Apr 2006

I've heard that about 大きに. It's a shame. That cuts my 関西弁語彙 by about 1/4.

JimmySeal · 27 Apr 2006

That's ok, Glenn. All you need to do now is set up a shop somewhere in the Kansai area and you can be spouting 大きに to your customers all the time. ;-)

Tomii515 · 29 Apr 2006

ok, so ALL -i adjective end in -a, -i, -u, or -o? then you add the extra -i, so it's: -ai, -ii, -ui, -oi? when you say those is it just -a, or can it be -ka, or -ko or something like that? cause in my book, there are some words with -a, -i, -u, and -o that are -na adjectives....this is confussing!!! and what about the time?

Glenn · 30 Apr 2006

All i-adjectives end in い. It's as simple as that.

Note, however, that not all words that end in い are i-adjectives, as was stated above.

Adjectives & Time

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