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WHY?? No protests around the world about this??

Grandpa Frank

先輩
21 May 2003
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The news tonight reported how the brave Taliban fighters assassinated a dangerous enemy. A highly trained and well armed team of Taliban risked their lives to shoot down a little 14 year old school girl in front of her little friends.
I'm sure we will see giant riots in the streets all over the world by the angry Muslims protesting against the Taliban's evil deed.

Yea right

Uncle Frank


:(
 
*For those who are interested.

Outcry over Pakistan attack on activist Malala Yousafza, 14

Almost immediately afterwards, the attack was condemned by politicians and media personalities.

President Asif Ali Zardari said that Tuesday's attack would not shake Pakistan's resolve to fight Islamist militants or the government's determination to support women's education.

He said that the aim of the "terrorists" who carried it out was to weaken the resolve of the nation - but the country would continue its fight against militants "until its logical conclusion".

In a statement about the attack, Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf said: "We have to fight the mindset that is involved in this. We have to condemn it... Malala is like my daughter, and yours too. If that mindset prevails, then whose daughter would be safe?"

The attack has also been condemned by most of Pakistan's major political parties, TV celebrities and human rights groups including the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) and Amnesty International.

HRCP senior official Kamila Hayat praised Malala Yousafzai for standing up to the militants and sending a message across the world that Pakistani girls had the courage to fight for their rights. But she also worried that Tuesday's shooting would prevent other parents from letting their children speak out against the Taliban.

"This is an attack to silence courage through a bullet," Ms Hayat said. "These are the forces who want to take us to the dark ages."
 
And where in the Muslim world is the public outcry, the fury, and the violent protests over the tens of thousands of victims in the Syrian civil war? Now if it was a silly Youtube video no-one has seen ...
 
1- I didn't see this in any Arabic news channel.
2- Muslims do not trust/believe the western sources and Pakistani government media as well.
3- Taliban fighters are Heroes in Muslims eyes so Muslims don't think Taliban would do such thing.
4- The majority of Muslims are not well educated so they don't know how to deal with anything that hurts their feelings.
5- There are some narrow-minded Sheikhs ( religion men ) who can control a big part of muslims, Those shiekhs must OPEN their eyes to the important events like Syria and Burma and they should try to educate people instead of driving them to the wrong way.
6- I have to say that the biggest Sheikhs made many interviews in the Arabic channels and i'm happy to see how they explained to Muslims how to deal with things, All your points above have been discussed by many Sheikhs.

In the last week i have seen too many videos on Youtube about that movie and many great persons explained how to deal with it rightly, I also read couple articles about it, Things are going to the right way.

And i should tell you that if the Muslim Nations were like Europe or US (in education - economic - freedom etc) you will see a very different picture here...

regards
 
Yesterday's news got it wrong.

The little girl sure is a fighter. She is still alive , even though she was shot in the neck and brain. I guess two of her friends with her were also wounded , but not critically like her. Shortly after the shooting , the Taliban proudly took credit for the shooting. It probably was not reported in the Mideast because it happens everyday to any women who dare to speak out or rebel in any way. It seems mutilation and killing of women who disobey is quite acceptable and not newsworthy.

Uncle Frank

Maybe everyone can say a prayer for the little girl to survive.
 
because it happens everyday to any women who dare to speak out or rebel in any way. It seems mutilation and killing of women who disobey is quite acceptable and not newsworthy.
o_O outch !
this shocked me ! sorry but this is not true :\
 
We see it on the news here often.

Even Time magazine did a big article. It shows hundreds of women in the Mideast with their noses and ears cut off for disobeying.We also see many pictures of women buried up to their necks in the sand while people throw stones to kill them. It shows safe homes where women can go to be safe and there are many women staying there. I believe this takes place in small villages and not in the big cities. The news articles make it sound like cattle,goats, and donkeys are treated much better than women and women have no rights.
I guess it could be all fake and photoshopped by the media here? When it comes to my government and the news media , I know not to believe everything they say, but it sure makes you wonder.

Uncle Frank

 
Of course there is crimes against women everywhere but the US media focus on "Muslim Nations"...the wouldn't care if it happens in south america or india ...But when it happens in Muslim nations they say " Islamists did it" and "Taliban did it" etc.
Why would someone cut his wife's nose or ear !! There is a punishment that goes on both men and women like cutting thief's hand and stoning a married man/woman who commits adultery.
I don't know any murder punishment against woman for disobeying !
I will be happy to list all punishments in Islam if you want, and i will be happy to answer any question, Any sort of questions is very welcomed.
 
BTW, Why don't the western media report women's crimes against men ?
One week ago in Yemen, A woman cut her fiance's dick and killed him because she had a doubt that he was going to break up with her !
She cut his dick and then she stabbed him in the neck, Chest and stomach.
This story has been reported on ALjazeera and Alarabiya networks [ the biggest news channels in the Arab world ].

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

I just watched the video about Malala in ALjazeera news website :

 
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You are right there Hezam .

I don't think I have ever seen any news from the Mideast about women doing violence. I know when I watch the news for the US , it seems like everyone is drunk and on drugs, carries a gun and shoots everyone, LOL. Some areas of the US seem more dangerous than the war areas in Afghanistan.I know it is not like that where I live. We need a channel of news that only show the nice things and good people from around the world.

Uncle Frank
 
Another ghost bump story about taliban, the real terrorist is US while comparing US and Taliban in how they treat woman in war is like comparing a criminal with a good peoples.

Just take the example of dr. Aifa how she been toture, rape, force to abort her child from illegal father of hundreds of US soldier, she come as healthy woman and go out with cancer because mutiple abortion and cripple.

While Taliban captive, Yvonne Riddley, she still alive today an ex sunday time reporter who been sent to Afghanistan to make secret reportation and end up been captive. When she been held, she even have her own key in her cell, they treat her with respect and polite. When she release from prison the reporter ask how the taliban treat her she reply "they treat me with respect and courtesy, I am glad being catch by the Taliban not by The US in Guantanamo Bay" after her release she back to London and later convert to Islam.

About this story that you post uncle same, still remember how the CNN falsify the news around 911 to provoke the masses that the muslim crowd cheer up regarding to that event and later they ask forgiveness for the false information that they say it as an error?

Still remember the lies about Iraqis soldier feeding baby to incubator in the first gulf war to picture the masses how evil the muslim are? and later this news knew as a hoax? still remember?

Do you still remember how the US blame north korea for massacring the population of south Korea while north korea innocent from this action and it is south Korea and US who perform that action and again another clarification of forgiveness?

After all of this lies, how can you believe on your government and their media?

How can you scream about the death of 1 girl that you don't even clearly know the news is right or false. While until this time it is a fact that until now the US still killing children with their drone missle and carpet bomb?

As the US carpet bombs, drone missile all of the high explosive already killed million children and women in Afghanistan and Iraq? right or wrong is my country is that your answer?

You must stay to keep and support your country don't care how wrong their act can be?

I can understand peoples feeling on the atrocities when the US drop the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I can feel their pain with sympathy and I can see how wrong and unnecessary that act can be.

But why peoples can't feel while the infant that death in US invasion on Iraq the infant causalities are more than the infant of causalities in Hiroshima and Nagasaki according to Madanline Albright, infant is under 5 years old children, where is your sympathy for the muslim?

I hear media cries each 11 september on how tragic the event kill the holy americans, and by this event they go angry and go rampage and kill everybody in the house for the searching of Usama Bin Laden, and what Iraq have anything to do with Osama Bin Laden? Million of civilian dies in that action, and 911 is nothing but an act of amateur comparing to what the US did.

Why media not crying for the headless baby muslim in Iraq? for the armless little girl in Afghanistan? for million graveyard of civilian include infant? because we are muslim, that's it, the death of 1 american is more important than the death of thousand of muslim.

Why? Why peoples can condemn Al Qaeda for bombing US military building and governmental building but they can't condemn the US for bombing thousand of public infrastructure, house, school, library, hospital, why?

why?
 
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western media focus on bad things in islamic countries and they ignore themselves
and they focus on islam
for example if some people in egypt attack western embassy western media will say that muslims attack the western embassy ،they don't say that some egyptions do that
but if some american people attack eastern embassy they don't say that christians attack the embassy ،they will say that some american do this
so the western media focus on islam and muslims more than anything
 
Of course there is crimes against women everywhere but the US media focus on "Muslim Nations"...the wouldn't care if it happens in south america or india ...But when it happens in Muslim nations they say " Islamists did it" and "Taliban did it" etc.
Why would someone cut his wife's nose or ear !! There is a punishment that goes on both men and women like cutting thief's hand and stoning a married man/woman who commits adultery.
I don't know any murder punishment against woman for disobeying !
I will be happy to list all punishments in Islam if you want, and i will be happy to answer any question, Any sort of questions is very welcomed.

There is a big distinction between what goes on in South America, Asia, or even most of the muslim middle east, when compared to what the Taliban are doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In most other countries women have been fighting for their rights and have often been successful at winning them. That's not the case with the Taliban, where there is very little public support for the extreme interpretation of Deoband and Salafist thought they practice. There the group has used extreme violence (including acid attacks) to "enforce" their views. Their crimes against women are part of a systematic policy to degrade their role in society, which does not conform to anything called upon in the Koran.

Personally, I can accept (albeit grudgingly) that Islamists are the popularly elected leadership of the states and have a strong claim on legitimacy. That's fine; I personally don't think they have the right policies in places like Egypt, if anything they are courting disaster. However that is the reality of the political system; it requires tolerance and compromise in order to work properly. Is it fair for women? no... apparently only 16% of Egyptians can imagine a woman getting into the top office of the country. But at least it has system to change that if there is enough public support.

Yet that's not what the Taliban are, nor is their value at all defensible in my mind... nor should they be for mainstream muslims. It just reprehensible for any culture.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

Of course there is crimes against women everywhere but the US media focus on "Muslim Nations"...the wouldn't care if it happens in south america or india ...But when it happens in Muslim nations they say " Islamists did it" and "Taliban did it" etc.
Why would someone cut his wife's nose or ear !! There is a punishment that goes on both men and women like cutting thief's hand and stoning a married man/woman who commits adultery.
I don't know any murder punishment against woman for disobeying !
I will be happy to list all punishments in Islam if you want, and i will be happy to answer any question, Any sort of questions is very welcomed.

There is a big distinction between what goes on in South America, Asia, or even most of the muslim middle east, when compared to what the Taliban are doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In most other countries women have been fighting for their rights and have often been successful at winning them. That's not the case with the Taliban, where there is very little public support for the extreme interpretation of Deoband and Salafist thought they practice. There the group has used extreme violence (including acid attacks) to "enforce" their views. Their crimes against women are part of a systematic policy to degrade their role in society, which does not conform to anything called upon in the Koran.

Personally, I can accept (albeit grudgingly) that Islamists are the popularly elected leadership of the states and have a strong claim on legitimacy. That's fine; I personally don't think they have the right policies in places like Egypt, if anything they are courting disaster. However that is the reality of the political system; it requires tolerance and compromise in order to work properly. Is it fair for women? no... apparently only 16% of Egyptians can imagine a woman getting into the top office of the country. But at least it has system to change that if there is enough public support.

Yet that's not what the Taliban are, nor is their value at all defensible in my mind... nor should they be for mainstream muslims. It just reprehensible for any culture.
 
noyhauser, There is a big difference between Taliban and the system that Most Muslims want, Taliban are very extremists especially when it comes to women going to school, That piss me off because i have no idea why they do that !
But Muslims support to Taliban is not for their way of controling a nation, It's because of the resistance against the western war on everywhere in Islamic world..
On top of that all the system that the west installed in Afghanistan and Iraq and South Sudan are way more corrupted than the old systems.
You would protest if Russia killed 1 civilian american but you wouldn't protest if an american killed another american, I mean mostly people are sensitive when it comes to an outsider crime than insider.

P.S when i read Koran i thought it Korea.. please use " Quran "

---------- Post added at 06:38 ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 ----------

Oh we forgot to pray for the girl.. i pray she survive and succeed in her fight to go to school, I pray that she become the teacher of the future in Pakistan, And i wish Taliban stop preventing women from going to schools.
 
The "taliban" are not just a resistance movement. they also have ties with things like the haqqani network.

It's crime and power. Money and influence.

The US is actually involved in (not so) secret negotiations with the Taliban, in an effort to bring them back into the political fold.
The Taliban KNOW they cannot win, but the US knows it would be another 20 years of expense to wipe them out.
So for both parties talking is on the table.

The taliban are actually moderating a lot of their doctrine so that they can go back into the political fold.
Which will reduce their overheads, allow them to control more poppy fields and make more profit selling Class A drugs.
 
A highly trained and well armed team of Taliban risked their lives to shoot down a little 14 year old school girl in front of her little friends.

I am no fan of the Taliban. But geez, could you be a bit more objective here? The girl was an activist, actively running a campaign against the Taliban that depending on perspective, one could label as propaganda. She threw herself in harms way.

This is not a time to condemn the Taliban for gunning down someone who was in all seriousness a threat to them, just because that threat was 14 years old. Nor is this a time to point fingers at the 1.5 billion Muslims of the world in some emotional, contrived rant of hate, ignorance, collective blame, and intolerance and pack it full of as many lies as possible.

What this is is a time to salute the courage and sacrifice of a teenage girl who risked and achieved martyrdom to spread the word about the dastardly Taliban scum. She was certainly more courageous than those American bomber pilots who rain hellfire down on women collecting firewood and at wedding parties, from many thousands of feet up, in their cozy heated aircraft. And she was braver than the U.S. military beaurocracy that is constantly trying to cover that crap up.

You want protests? Where the hell were the protests over murdering Gaddafi's 3 grandchildren, the youngest being maybe four years old? I mean they bombed a HOUSE for chrissake, and they KNEW kids were there. Where the hell is the rage man? Or do you hold that four year old responsible for Gaddafi's sins or something?

Malala Yousufzai had a big friggen clue what the hell she was doing. The four year old didnt.

I think you should apologize for your double standards, expecting the Muslim world to protest evil while the western world is the ones invading and destablizing the Muslim world and setting the stage for this crap to happen, all the while committing atrocities of their own. Did you get up off your butt when Wikileaks exposed the murder of journalists by American attack helicopter? How about when the truth of the Mai Lai massacre hit? When the predator drone blew up a school full of children? Didn't think so.

What I want to know is: How much longer does it take you to wash those two faces in the morning?
 
This girl may be an activist, but she only fought for free speech and equal rights for women. The taliban are against that and shot her for it.
In my opinion she is a heroine and a martyr. Braver than I'll ever be.

The taliban are against civilisation itself, is how I see it: against music and entertainment, free speech, education for women, against science and technological progress, against art,... the list goes on.
Al qaida and the taliban are responsible for killing more muslim people than the rest of the world combined.
I am no fan of what the US (and allies) did in Iraq; it is a country calling itself a state of law unworthy. But if the NATO war in Afghanistan is able to defeat the taliban, at least some good would come out of it over there. Though every innocent victim is one too many. It is all too easy to say this is a price these people must pay for their freedom. That is not fair.
This is a very difficult matter, and honestly I don't know what to think of it. But seeing the taliban for what they are, I know what side I'm taking.

The taliban is the opposite of the accomplishments, the ancient Arabic world stood for. As a man of science, I think the majority of the muslim world has much to be proud of. And the nations of the west would never have evolved as they have without Islamic Arabia.
I hope one day this ancient spirit of education, discovery and humanism will be sparked anew in the middle east, because nowadays I barely see a trace of it.

Just my opinion.
 
Just a word of wise for you, don't use "Islamic Arabia", Caliphate was anti-nationalist, anti Fascist, anti tribal centric government entity. The center of knowledge like Cordoba, Samarkand, Constantinople, were not been overwhelm by Arabs and are not Arabic country. So do many great figure in Islam from Salahudin Al Ayyubi or as you know as Saladin, Muhammad Al Fatih, Yavus Sultan Selim, and thousand more even millions of them are not Arabs.

We are cross national boundaries brotherhood, that Spread from China to Spain under the way of Islam. You will not also say Ottoman was an Arabic Caliphate that totally blunder, not also a Turkish Caliphate, another blunder, it's Muslim Caliphate that been given bai'ath or oath by the muslim all over the world, from Indonesia to Bosnia, from Albania to Somalia, from the blackest of the black peoples to whitest of the white peoples.

The reason of our fall is the conspiracy of British and French propaganda, injecting nationalist idea from a man like Arthur Lumney, also the backing for the establishment nationalist feudal of Hejaz, the salafi Saudi Kingdom.

My advice, study the history of Islam goodly from a muslim author. I tell you something good, a history is a discourse and discipline of knowledge that man mostly poorly educate or wrongly educate that create miss conception and miss understanding in both present and future.

Don't get offense from this advice I mean no offense just a sharing for you. I know person like you will happy to get this.

This girl may be an activist, but she only fought for free speech and equal rights for women. The taliban are against that and shot her for it.
In my opinion she is a heroine and a martyr. Braver than I'll ever be.

The taliban are against civilisation itself, is how I see it: against music and entertainment, free speech, education for women, against science and technological progress, against art,... the list goes on.
Al qaida and the taliban are responsible for killing more muslim people than the rest of the world combined.
I am no fan of what the US (and allies) did in Iraq; it is a country calling itself a state of law unworthy. But if the NATO war in Afghanistan is able to defeat the taliban, at least some good would come out of it over there. Though every innocent victim is one too many. It is all too easy to say this is a price these people must pay for their freedom. That is not fair.
This is a very difficult matter, and honestly I don't know what to think of it. But seeing the taliban for what they are, I know what side I'm taking.

The taliban is the opposite of the accomplishments, the ancient Arabic world stood for. As a man of science, I think the majority of the muslim world has much to be proud of. And the nations of the west would never have evolved as they have without Islamic Arabia.
I hope one day this ancient spirit of education, discovery and humanism will be sparked anew in the middle east, because nowadays I barely see a trace of it.

Just my opinion.

Look Waribald. If you think American war in Afghanistan is an emancipatory war you don't need to get the war till finish to figure it out that it isn't.

The installation of the new government it already done, and it is corrupt and similar with other puppet government, which they were reluctant and been install to serve the US interest only, as they gave up all of their natural resources to both MNC and TNC company in exchange for the luxury and free corruption for their family. This is not at all something news.

The corruption and crime of Karzai government goes in the peak of embarrassing and cruse-able government as they serve they interest also on poppies trafficking to poison the youth all over the world with heroin.

I'm talking about a business that worth trillion of dollar and benefit them for millions of dollar. Only with these fact you will not say and justify that the US war in Afghanistan is a emancipatory war, it was and it is an imperialist war that serve no interest except the interest of group of peoples that is not at all a good peoples.

It not even serve their own national interest, because actually American government give no care about the american, they are nothing but tax payer and un-aware citizen that been manipulated by their government.

There lots of myth about Taliban, which back then I also in the side of those who believe that myth as many peoples believe it now in faith some other with fanatic believe but ironically they think they are knowledgeable and moderate in the issue.

My finger is ready to point out any of Taliban miss conduct as I ready also to point out any of US and it allies miss conduct. I will not stand here as many peoples stand except few peoples over here, "right or wrong is my country. Right or wrong is my peoples. right or wrong is my allies" that is fanaticism. I will stand for "right is right, wrong is wrong".

First myth, Taliban use drug trafficking and support their economy with drugs.

Aren't any of you remember who is the one successfully ban and burn the cultivation of Opium in Afghanistan that provide more than 75 percent of the total of world opium supplies? It was the Taliban who ban it and successfully burn it and mark it as illegal. Taliban as political entity was the most prestigious at their campaign against drugs, UN also note that and want a part of the cake that they help the taliban, while they are not.

US war black campaign on black goating their opponent with false information is not at all a new thing. As I told above did you remember on how the US accuse Iraqis soldier feeding babies in car incubator? Then peoples believe that and raging about that, while the witness is one of the ambassador relatives that later it known that she were made a false witnesses upon this things just to downgrade the opponent of US and to give a moral reason for their army to wage war and to gain the moral support of the world, that they are the force of good versusing the foce of evil Iraqis soldier that feeding babies in Incubator.

Just search that things it is easy to find, you'll find it, no need for me to get it for u isn't it?

How can they made up such things such stupid things and peoples believe in it? Because most of peoples don't use their mind, they just believe and stay away from controversial stand that goes against the opinion of majority while most of the case the opinion of majority is been manipulated by the popular flow that been won by the effect of mainstream media while the true mostly remain in controversial position, only those who have principal and fairness that able to stand for the truth while it not prevail, and God willing I stand for it.

Dr Khetab Kakar, Director of SJA Hospital stated in the time of Taliban not even Opium there even no drug addicts, as those who cultivate, consume, distribute poppies is been punish to death by the Taliban. While the opium is again been flourish and increase in production also the addiction of Afghan peoples in opium are increase in each territories that been invade by NATO.

Funny isn't it? that is the fact, take it or leave it. Let me give you some clue.

Yesterday, Britain cultivate drugs in Gujarat and sell it to all over the war, include to China, this is a big business. Don't believe me? See how they acquire Hong Kong for hundred year also the successful invasion on China were due to how they sell drugs to the chinese until they rich nation goes to bankrupt.

Today. The US collaborate with Russian Mafia and Afghani Mafia cultivate Poppies in Afghanistan and sell it whole over the world. The occupation of the US to Afghanistan is count not long after Mullah Omar burn more then 90 percent of the total poppies in Afghanistan. Of course they lost trillions dollar profit because the halal and haram of Taliban domestic policies, they need to invade and settle new government over there that more cooperative for US favor.

So Taliban and the drugs things are nothing but myth.

Second Myth, women are forbid to go to school under Taliban rule

Mr Blair talking about the evil Taliban, that this nation are so evil they don't even let their kids to fly a kite. What he and Bush not told us yet is, how the Taliban feed their babies for dog food and put them in dark basement and let them sleep above the broken glasses, if they say you so will you believe it oh you peoples?

While all of us here seating in the cozy chair, and see the event that kill 19 peoples that been shot in the theater as tragedy, non of us know the reality of the war.

In war a thousand of peoples die been killed and that not even be call a tragedy that not even worth enough to be put in CNN.

We only believe what the tv told us to believe. TV is the truth for most of peoples, TV is the prophet, while their nation is their God and nationality is their religion. And false emancipatory war is their religious teaching, hating the enemy of the state is their moral conduct.

Look, I will show you the reality, we don't have any idea what happen over there, most of peoples they just heard what the TV told them and they believe, as we muslim say "Wa samai'na wa taotna" or we heard and we obey, but this is just for God. And TV is no God.

Yvonne Riddley have more knowledge than any of us here right now, as she come to investigate taliban, leave UK as someone who hate Taliban to go to Afghanistan, and live among the Afghani. She say funnily as she goes there and expect to see oppression of women but what she find over there is it really arguably women over there are far then been oppress.

She ask one of the villagers, about the pre-war condition, she say she was so sad and angry because she cannot continue her medical studies in university as the university now been closed by the Taliban because the condition before war they don't want her to get hurt. And Yvonne pretty shock about knowing that women actually go to university and study medicine in under Taliban rule.

Long story short, I urge someone who like to know the truth about Taliban, watch this :

[video=youtube;nFqtZd0y_0g]

I want to continue to talk, but I have things to do I will reply the other thread also later
 
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This girl may be an activist, but she only fought for free speech and equal rights for women.

Only? She fought against the Taliban directly even if only in words. She was Tokyo Rose for the Taliban.

Yes, the Taliban are a bunch of backward idiots. Probably the closest thing on Earth we have left of cavemen. But her words and activism were a threat to them.

To the Taliban, she might as well have been Osama bin Laden. Did Osama actually lift a finger to harm anyone? Not that I know of. What he did was spread ideas. The problem was his mouth. His mouth got people on our side killed. Her mouth got people on their side killed.

I know what side I'm taking.

Me too. Just remember that sides must take a back seat to principles. The American government does not define my principles. I still side with the American government more than any other, but I am very often opposed, because I am not a thrall.

I never liked the Taliban. But I do remember a time when they were cheered for bringing stability to Afghanistan. I do believe that if left alone they could have evolved, just like everybody else. Look at China. They step closer to capitalism every day.

But America decided to topple Taliban. Why? Because they harbored al-Q? That's not a good enough reason to destabilize a whole country!

And you know what happened because America decided to destablize Afghanistan? The Taliban spread into Pakistan! Which leads us directly to why this Pakistani teen was gunned down, not in Afghanistan, but Pakistan!

And now lets go back to women's rights and freedom of speech. You think that is what the region needs right now? You think that will bring peace and stability? That is like saying we will get there faster by putting the cart in front of the horse! Its not going to happen. You name me any country that went from a mess to a modern westernized country and I will show you a place where freedom of speech and women's rights came only after stability and a significant period of time.

It all has to start with stability. They had it. America destroyed it. And its been 11 years of death and destruction ever since. Women's rights? Freedom of speech? How about the right to not live in a friggen war zone patrolled by trigger happy American predator drones? The Taliban are scum and they are not nice. But better to live with the Taliban than to live dead. Think about that.
 
abdalrasyid said:
Just a word of wise for you, don't use "Islamic Arabia", Caliphate was anti-nationalist, anti Fascist, anti tribal centric government entity. The center of knowledge like Cordoba, Samarkand, Constantinople, were not been overwhelm by Arabs and are not Arabic country. So do many great figure in Islam from Salahudin Al Ayyubi or as you know as Saladin, Muhammad Al Fatih, Yavus Sultan Selim, and thousand more even millions of them are not Arabs.

We are cross national boundaries brotherhood, that Spread from China to Spain under the way of Islam. You will not also say Ottoman was an Arabic Caliphate that totally blunder, not also a Turkish Caliphate, another blunder, it's Muslim Caliphate that been given bai'ath or oath by the muslim all over the world, from Indonesia to Bosnia, from Albania to Somalia, from the blackest of the black peoples to whitest of the white peoples.
Agreed, The last Caliphate is the Ottoman which was protecting the whole Islamic world.

abdalrasyid said:
The reason of our fall is the conspiracy of British and French propaganda, injecting nationalist idea from a man like Arthur Lumney, also the backing for the establishment nationalist feudal of Hejaz, the salafi Saudi Kingdom.
This is one reason, But there were many reasons like colonization and the nationalist movements all over the islamic world, Add to that the Ottoman government was poor and weak, The military had old weapons and the navy as well, The corruption of some sultans cost the government more than it can afford,That's why the Jewish offered to pay all the debts in exchange to take Palestine.

:)
 
This is one reason, But there were many reasons like colonization and the nationalist movements all over the islamic world, Add to that the Ottoman government was poor and weak, The military had old weapons and the navy as well, The corruption of some sultans cost the government more than it can afford,That's why the Jewish offered to pay all the debts in exchange to take Palestine.

:)

If you ever know Arthur Lumney, he is the one who provoke the later nationality of Turkey and the birth of young turks, and changes of Islamic system into nationalism, and differ citizen by Turks and Non Turks, who later provoke others muslim country nationalism, Saudi Nationalism, egypt nationalism, Tunis nationalism, Algier nationalism, Kurdish nationalism because they think "why the turks? why not us the best? we are the Arabs!" other "we are Egypt we are the mother of the Arabs! and we are better than Turks!" other "we are Berber, we the one who build this great Cordoba, we are not the barbar Arabs and that Mongol Turks, lets build our own" and long story go short, fitnah created, they go back to their jahiliyah proud of Ancestor, and the logic of Ummat divide into the logic of nation and race. This is one of the big hit to Ottoman empire, and of course your other reason also correct, as they use all of that money to make competition also among themselves. But keep what I tell u in mind.
 
If you ever know Arthur Lumney, he is the one who provoke the later nationality of Turkey and the birth of young turks, and changes of Islamic system into nationalism, and differ citizen by Turks and Non Turks, who later provoke others muslim country nationalism, Saudi Nationalism, egypt nationalism, Tunis nationalism, Algier nationalism, Kurdish nationalism because they think "why the turks? why not us the best? we are the Arabs!" other "we are Egypt we are the mother of the Arabs! and we are better than Turks!" other "we are Berber, we the one who build this great Cordoba, we are not the barbar Arabs and that Mongol Turks, lets build our own" and long story go short, fitnah created, they go back to their jahiliyah proud of Ancestor, and the logic of Ummat divide into the logic of nation and race.
This is very true.
 
If you ever know Arthur Lumney, he is the one who provoke the later nationality of Turkey and the birth of young turks, and changes of Islamic system into nationalism, and differ citizen by Turks and Non Turks, who later provoke others muslim country nationalism, Saudi Nationalism, egypt nationalism, Tunis nationalism, Algier nationalism, Kurdish nationalism because they think "why the turks? why not us the best? we are the Arabs!" other "we are Egypt we are the mother of the Arabs! and we are better than Turks!" other "we are Berber, we the one who build this great Cordoba, we are not the barbar Arabs and that Mongol Turks, lets build our own" and long story go short, fitnah created, they go back to their jahiliyah proud of Ancestor, and the logic of Ummat divide into the logic of nation and race. This is one of the big hit to Ottoman empire, and of course your other reason also correct, as they use all of that money to make competition also among themselves. But keep what I tell u in mind.
I agree with you
maybe the day when we unite again isn't far insha'a Allah
 
I agree with you
maybe the day when we unite again isn't far insha'a Allah

Bi Iznillah ya Akhi, it will happen, I don't know my eyes are so narrow, but it seem the time its near. We don't have reason to be separate, we have one Kitab, one religion, one brotherhood, one nation, one God, we are one ya akhi. And the believer is brother and helper to one and another, so do the kuffar are brother and helper to one and another.
 
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