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Who Won the Election?

Hanada Tattsu

12 Aug 2003
Does anyone know who won the General Election yesterday in Japan? Did the LDP/Jiminto, otherwise known as the the Liberal Democratic Party, or also as the Conservative Party, led by Junichiro Koizumi win, or did the Democratic Party/Minshuto, otherwise known as the Liberal Socialist Party, led by Naoto Kan, win? Who won, and who is gonna lead Japan, the LDP or the DPJ? Who won? Thanks!

I'm a strict LDP member, so that's why.

Looks like Koizumi won...

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | PM Koizumi hangs on to power

Im not a fan of the LDP, I think the LDP has cemented itself into the political culture of Japan, and has resisted change for too long, much of it because it profits from the situation. I wish the Hosokawa government wasn't ejected from power in 1994, it would of brought a measure of growth to the Japanese government, instead everybody got dissolusioned and now votes LDP because they are afraid of change.
Yeah, I'm dissapointed about the LDP holding on to power too. But I was glad to see that the Democratic Party made a lot of gains and the LDP lost a lot of seats. Nice to see that the New conservative party was almost completely wiped out too.

I agree with your take on the LDP noyhauser. They are a bunch of old farts with both hands in the cookie jar who are quite happy to let Japan continue its long slide into mediocrity so long as they can hold onto power.

You are a member of the LDP, Hanada Tattsu, yet you have to come here to find out if they have won the election or not? I find that very strange.
Lol, no, I'm not an official member, I don't even live in Japan, I live in America, but when i move to Japan, I will be a member of the LDP.

I'm very Conservative, and the LDP is something of a conservative party. Oh, and those of you that are New Conservatives are now LDP members, 'cause the Conservative party has merged with the LDP.

I'm against the DPJ, but in all honesty, the only reason they did well was because Naoto Kan is a left wing man, as is his party, but also because the DPJ absorbed the 1884 created Liberal Party, and also pledged to work on having American forces stationed off Okinawa and Naha City.

Are you Japanese? I don't think they let Americans join the LDP.

Apart from their being conservative what do you like about the LDP? Or, more specifically, what is it about their percieved conservatism that you find appealing?
Um, senseiman, are you being sarcastic? I said when I MOVE to Japan, I will join. And secondly, I don't want to discuss politics in public here.

You can PM me if you want to discuss this further.
Sorry, didn't mean to pry. I thought you were American, that is why I asked.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but if you didn't want to discuss politics here why did you start this thread about Japanese politics?
I am American, I will join the LDP when I move.

Secondly, I just wanted to know who won, I didn't want to discuss whether the conservatives (LDP) or socialist democrats (DPJ) is better.
Look Haneda, you came on here and slandered the Democratic Party DPJ calling them the socialist party... and you DONT want to talk politics? That is a bit of a double standard. If you can do that about the DPJ then I have the same right to do it about the LDP which I personally believe is the root problem of the current economic malaise. Crony politics between high ranking LDP officials or"kingmakers", the Bureacracy and the Buisness has worked to prevent the Japanese government from actually going ahead and dealing with the problems in the banking sector and nonperforming loans. These companies don't want the government to make the hard choices. Really at some point they will have to devalue the collateral on the loans (usually land) which will provoke probablly another collapse in the banks, since they really are overstating their holdings by overvaluing the collateral on the nonperforming loans. So the LDP needs to be ejected out of power and replaced by another party with a full majority that will carry out the necessary reforms, as painful as they me be.
Originally posted by Hanada Tattsu
I am American, I will join the LDP when I move.

Secondly, I just wanted to know who won, I didn't want to discuss whether the conservatives (LDP) or socialist democrats (DPJ) is better.
Please next time take a look at a newspaper for information yourself first before pestering other people, Hanada. Also, wasn't the former Socialist Party absorbed by the DPJ some years ago? So not sure if implying a linkage is outright slander, but they are completely separate entities now as far as I know.

A friend of mine calls this Googlitis, or the inability of some people to look up stuff on the net first and come on forums to ask questions.

I thought he wanted to discuss issues...
Com Laude

doesn't sound to me that the DPJ is socialist after all...

Left wing is a poor word to use, because it has been used too much to describe too many things. But generally it means a Party that is committed to more public spending on healthcare, infrastructure, daycare, welfare (just spending in general), with the exception of military spending (usually, the Canadian left wing party, the NDP supports military spending). This usually means more taxes, but its called social welfare. Right wing usally means fiscally conservative and less public spending and less taxes. Thats leftwing and right wing in a nutshell. There is now something called the "3rd Way" which is what Tony blair and Clinton pushed which amalgamates both.
Why don't you go to a site called broadleft.org, or do other people have Googleitis too. Some of these people are just plain wierd, especially noyhauser with his jokes, and Elizabeth with her insults. How am I 'pestering' people?

If you had any knowledge of left wing politics, you would know that a leftist party is either a socialist, communist, revolutionairy, or extreme nationalist party. The DPJ may not be entirely socialist, but it believes in social democracy.

Before you open up your insulting mouths, then I suggest you do to the research, or are your brains too small?

Since they are, and since you guys obviously don't know anything about leftist parties, or about manners, here is an explanation of a leftist party from Broadleft.org.

This page contains the entire spectrum of political parties, organizations and groups which consider themselves to be leftist or have origins in leftist movements. You will find democratic socialists and reform communists as well as social democratic and green parties, traditional communists, marxists-leninists of stalinist or maoist persuasions, the tendencies of trotskyism, left communists, guerrilla organizations, leftist movements struggling for national or ethnic liberation or for regional autonomy, the different currents of anarchism, alliances with leftist participation and parties outside of these categories.

And here is likewise the link to Japan's page in the website, and I think I see the DPJ clearly listed there.

Japan's Leftist Parties

Owned. Now, I suggest before you open up your stupid mouths just to say something, and to insult other people, do the research yourself. Ha ha ha, I guess noyhauser's little effort to be funny (which did not work, btw) turned against him, and all you other little fake know it all's.

Originally posted by Gaki
I'm confused...your American and you support a Japanese government party ?

Yeah, 'cause I'm making plans to move there after high school and attend college there, so that's why I'm just choosing early,
Erm...ok..so what do these particular parties do, that makes them have your support ?

Do they benefit Americans in Japan or something ?
Well, it's basically the Conservative party of Japan, it kind of stresses to be both conservative and liberal in some things, like to make reforms, but to make reforms that are conservative, and that's what I believe in, get it?
Well someone who actually did their homework for once...

(pulls off the Kid Gloves)

Firstly I put the above explaination because someone asked a simple question, one that is not so easy to find the answer. your question was easy to find, look on BBC and you could find the answer within 10 seconds. What is left wing/rightwing is completly different answer.
Also I don't need a website to tell me what a definition of the poltical spectrum is, I did 4 years straight of political philosphy to give me the right to say that. Thats not to say I'm a final arbiter of what is right and wrong, it just gives me the ability to write what is generally accepted to be left and right. And if you notice I never said my conceptualization is sacrocant. I clearly stated there are a lot of different definitions of what a left wing right wing constitutes. I even said in my first statement that what it generally means.

Now with that said, and what I know of poltical ideologies, your definition of what the DPJ stands for is completely off base. I'm going to use a few examples. Neo Liberalism has been labeled a right wing Ideology. Neoliberalism was extremely popular in the 1980s with Margret thatcher and Ronald Regan policies of rolling back the welfare state. Essentially Thatcher pushed policies in deregulation, and privatization of industries. She also cut welfare benefits. I quoted this from Anthony Giddens, a renowned poltical scientist. Now lets look at what the DPJ stood for in the election. I got this quote from the economist article cited below.

"Mr Kan based the campaign on a detailed DPJ ツ。ツーmanifestoツ。ツア, which laid out specific policy targets and timetables for everything from decentralisation to cuts in public-works spending. This helped to centre the debate on big issues. The manifesto was broadly reformist. It argued for reining in the central bureaucracy and cutting subsidies to special interest groups who have long backed the LDP. In essence, the DPJ told voters that it was more committed to reform than Mr Koizumi"

These essentially are neoliberal tenets! The only one that is not present is deregulation, which the the DPJ can't be worse than the LDP who have got the interest rate to 0% and have been artifically lowering the Yen to stimulate exports. That does NOTHING to increase domestic consumption in Japan because imported items are more expensive now. Really thats a policy that helps big buisnesses like sony who gain more money exporting with a weak yen, since consumers outside japan can buy more japanese products because their dollar buys more yen. But, because the Yen is high, it hinders everybody consumer in japan because the cost of living gets jacked up. This matters a lot for japan because it exports so much. something like 60% of japans food comes from importing... now you can buy less of it because the yen does not cover as much ground. That means less money on other things like cars and stereos which are produced in japan that can increase growth.

The quote you use for revolutionaty is meant as a social revolution which Kan is definately not in support of. Thatcher was waaaay more revolutionary and there is not a soul in this world who would consider her left wing. Also Parties change ideologies. Before Tony Blair came into power the Labour party in Britain under Neil Kinnock was very left wing, Tony (and Kinnock partly) started the new right program and changed the party completly, moving it close to center. This is what happened with the DPJ as they realized Left wing politics will never get them into power so they changed their affiliation. There goes your google hit.

Now for the LDP. They are by no means right wing. What I think you have done is say that they are conservative, mixing them up as right wing. Conservative in the japanese formation means the old way, which is not necessarily right wing (but it is compared to most countries) This is why I said rightwing leftwing dichotomies were extremely difficult to use, I should made that point even more emphasized for the Japanese case. Conservative in the Japanese sense is the old way, of huge spending in public infrastructure, happy relations with big buisness and little government interference in their activities. Luckily the recent Resona bank collapse finally made some people in Japan the precarious state that they are in. They were several billion dollars away from a meltdown that would be 10 times worse than the 1997 devaluation of the Bhat in thailand that touched off the Asian Currency crisis. if something isn't done about the banking system in Japan, it will cause a catastrophy. But it seems that the LDP doesn't understand that. Look at the three main challengers for Koizumi in the LDP leadership race last April. Two of them wanted to inject more money into ifrastructure programs. Mr Kamei wanted to put in 30-50 Trillion Yen next year. If you look at the Japanese debt right now that is sucide. It will ruin financial respect for the Japanese banking system and will cause a financial crisis which the Japanese government may not be able to prempt (causing a financial crisis)

If you want to push policies like these go ahead. those are conservative policies but by no means right wing wing. The LDP uses public spending to get support from its traditional supporters, such as agriculture and big business. That is pork barrel politics and ignoring the major problems just to keep in power is going to ruin Japan. Its already done so in the last decade. A new party that doesn't have any links to big buisness and create a atompshere that is actually conducive to buisness.

Also don't come on here and presume that I have a small brain please. You have no clue about my education or my knowledge. You said something and it was incorrect, and I corrected it. I never attacked you character or demeaned you in anyway. Also I can use L33t speak too...

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Yeah, I want to back up noyhauser's response here. You can't just use left-wing/right wing and Liberal/conservative as if they were interchangeable terms. The most conservative party in Russia for example is the communist party.

Hanada Tattsu, you complain about how everyone here insults you and yet everyone has been very civil with you on this thread. Take a look for yourself, no one has said a single bad word to you on any of the messages. I don't know what it is you are complaining about. Perhaps before you go telling everyone how stupid they are you might want to actually read what they say. Its not so bad, trust me.
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