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Verb conjugation

espen180

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Do all Godan and Ichidan verbs follow a strict base pattern? I think 'desu' is a Godan verb. Have I conjugated it correctly below?

Base 1: desa
Base 2: deshi
Base 3: desu
Base 4: dese
Base 5: desou
Base te: deshite
Base ta: deshita
 

Conjugation

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Cool! Thanks for the update. I was looking for it too. Your responses will really become helpful on my research for K5 students.
 

Mike92101

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Do all Godan and Ichidan verbs follow a strict base pattern? I think 'desu' is a Godan verb. Have I conjugated it correctly below?
Base 1: desa
Base 2: deshi
Base 3: desu
Base 4: dese
Base 5: desou
Base te: deshite
Base ta: deshita
Technically speaking, desu isn't a verb at all. (I appreciate Toritoribe's response, but I have to disagree with it.)

Desu only seems to be a verb. Newer students are often first introduced to it in equational sentences, X wa Y desu, where desu deceptively seems to function as a verb. Actually, desu is the copula.
(At this point here, I wanted to add a good, non-commercial Web page that I found that explained the copula nicely, but some pesky technical function of this Web site would not allow it.)

The copula and auxiliary verbs (as well as verbs in general) are two different things. An auxiliary verb is a verb that attaches only to the TE-form of another verb in order to convey additional meaning over and above that verb.

Here are some examples:

Verb-TE iru (progressive/stative)
Tomodachi wa terebi wo mite imasu. (My friend is watching TV.)
Watashi wa Kariforunia ni sunde imasu. (I live in California.)
Tomu-san wo shitte imasu ka. (Do you know Tom?)

Verb-TE miru (trying/exploring)
Sono eiga wo mite mimashō ka. (Should we try that movie out? (lit., Should we watch that movie to see how it is?))

Verb-TE shimau (completion or implying regret)
Watashi wa shiken ni ochite shimaimashita. (I ended up failing the test.)

Verb-TE iku (some action/state is progressing, starting as the speaker talks)
Kugatsu desu kara, tenki ga suzushiku natte ikimasu. (Since it's September, the weather will be getting cooler.)

Verb-TE morau (speaker receives the favor of some act)
Rūmumēto ga watashi ni sunakku wo tsukutte moraimashita. (My roommate fixed me a snack.)

And there are many other auxiliary verbs.
 

Toritoribe

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Angel Valis

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Technically speaking, desu isn't a verb at all. (I appreciate Toritoribe's response, but I have to disagree with it.)
Desu only seems to be a verb. Newer students are often first introduced to it in equational sentences, X wa Y desu, where desu deceptively seems to function as a verb. Actually, desu is the copula.

However:

copula [kop-yuh-luh]
–noun, plural -las, -lae  

1.
something that connects or links together.
2.
Also called linking verb. Grammar . a verb, as be, seem, or look, that serves as a connecting link or establishes an identity between subject and complement.

3.
Logic . a word or set of words that acts as a connecting link between the subject and predicate of a proposition.

And then:

be [bee; unstressed bee, bi]
verb and auxiliary verb, present singular 1st person am, 2nd are or ( Archaic ) art, 3rd is, present plural are; past singular 1st person was, 2nd were or ( Archaic ) wast or wert, 3rd was, past plural were; present subjunctive be; past subjunctive singular 1st person were, 2nd were or ( Archaic ) wert, 3rd were; past subjunctive plural were; past participle been; present participle be·ing.

–verb (used without object)
1.
to exist or live: Shakespeare's “To be or not to be” is the ultimate question.
2.
to take place; happen; occur: The wedding was last week.
3.
to occupy a place or position: The book is on the table.
4.
to continue or remain as before: Let things be.
5.
to belong; attend; befall: May good fortune be with you.
6.
(used as a copula to connect the subject with its predicate adjective, or predicate nominative, in order to describe, identify, or amplify the subject): Martha is tall. John is president. This is she.
7.
(used as a copula to introduce or form interrogative or imperative sentences): Is that right? Be quiet! Don't be facetious.


–auxiliary verb
8.
(used with the present participle of another verb to form the progressive tense): I am waiting.
9.
(used with the present participle or infinitive of the principal verb to indicate future action): She is visiting there next week. He is to see me today.
10.
(used with the past participle of another verb to form the passive voice): The date was fixed. It must be done.
11.
(used in archaic or literary constructions with some intransitive verbs to form the perfect tense): He is come. Agamemnon to the wars is gone.

Be, is the English copula and functions in a way similar to that of desu in some of its usages (especially as definition 2 of copula and 6 and 7 of be). Be is considered a(n) (auxiliary/linking)verb and therefore since desu shares functions with be (and since function is what defines what is or is not a verb or other part of grammar), then desu also is (at least some of the time, if not all) a(n) (auxiliary/linking) verb.
 

Mike92101

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There are two definitions of 助動詞 in Japanese grammar; the one in 国文法 and the one in 言語学. What you explained in your post is called 補助動詞 in 国文法. The linked pages below might be somewhat helpful.
(sorry, all in Japanese)
I think you may have been referring to my post.
If so, thank you for the response, but alas, there is too much Japanese for me to journey through. I am a 自習している学生, and at a level, I would judge, of late intermediate and even early advanced level. My weakness at this point is in vocabulary.
How do your links compare -- and/or contrast -- differences between our responses? In particular, what is the difference (from the viewpoint of a practical, versus technical/theoretical, use of Japanese), between 国文法 and 言語学?
Thanks again.
(Oh, I was forced by the site's software to delete your hyperlinks, as I still do not have enough posts in this forum yet for it to allow me to post them in my messages.)
 

Mike92101

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However:
And then:
Be, is the English copula and functions in a way similar to that of desu in some of its usages (especially as definition 2 of copula and 6 and 7 of be). Be is considered a(n) (auxiliary/linking)verb and therefore since desu shares functions with be (and since function is what defines what is or is not a verb or other part of grammar), then desu also is (at least some of the time, if not all) a(n) (auxiliary/linking) verb.
I find your contention interesting, and I respect your viewpoint. Japanese and English, as you know, and Japanese and any other language on Earth, for that matter, are extremely different languages. Your dictionary definitions are doubtless quite accurate, but I would bet that they best apply to Engllish.

On the issue of whether です is an auxiliary verb, I think we are arguing about labels or definitions, but not usable, practical, substantive grammar rules.

Thank you for what you added, however. It was interesting.
 

Glenn

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I am a 自習している学生...

You want 独学している, unless you're in study hall or something.

This conversation took place a few months ago, I guess. See verbs in kanji?.

To somewhat answer your question about 国文法 and 言語学: they basically use different terms for different things. 言語学 does better overall in my opinion from what I've seen of explaining Japanese grammar. 国文法 I think made more sense in Classical Japanese. You'd really have to dig into Japanese grammar to see what I mean by that, and you probably will have to do it in Japanese as well. At any rate, the definition for copula in linguistics captures all languages fairly well, I believe, but it does say that some act more like adjectives or whatever (language-dependent). That said, as I said in the referenced thread, です acts more like a verb than anything else, so it's a verb as far as I'm concerned (albeit a special one).
 

Mike92101

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You want 独学している, unless you're in study hall or something.
This conversation took place a few months ago, I guess. See
To somewhat answer your question about 国文法 and 言語学: they basically use different terms for different things. 言語学 does better overall in my opinion from what I've seen of explaining Japanese grammar. 国文法 I think made more sense in Classical Japanese. You'd really have to dig into Japanese grammar to see what I mean by that, and you probably will have to do it in Japanese as well. At any rate, the definition for copula in linguistics captures all languages fairly well, I believe, but it does say that some act more like adjectives or whatever (language-dependent). That said, as I said in the referenced thread, です acts more like a verb than anything else, so it's a verb as far as I'm concerned (albeit a special one).
And thank you for your message, as well. I can see from the date on your profile that you have about three years more experience in Japanese, at least, than I do. I became a Japanophile about 3 1/2 years ago.

I follow your explanation. It's a number of years, at least, before I'll be doing any research into Japanese grammar from original Japanese sources.

Hopefully I didn't misstep by barging in with my original posts, but I have fallen for everything Japanese, including the language, pretty much full bore, and maybe I got overenthusiastic in not introducing myself or whatnot.
 

Glenn

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It's cool, and I totally understand. I've gotten better about it, but sometimes I still want to run headfirst into something that I've just really gotten into as well. Anyway, you seem to have a good attitude, and that counts for a lot. Plus, it's nice to have more people interested in studying Japanese around here. It helps keep me up to speed. 😌
 
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