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Various views/opinions on japan, your opinions?

Your opinions on these views on Japanese people/society

  • There is still a lot of pressure on many women to marry and/or have babyツ’s in Japanese society

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • Many companyツ’s employ gaijin just to make their company look "international"

    Votes: 6 85.7%
  • The Japanese are very racist towards other races like black/African people etc

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • There is not enough social support for many alcoholics in Japanese society

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • The government does not do enough to properly educate its people about other countries

    Votes: 6 85.7%
  • There is too much pressure to look young or cute in japanese society towards women

    Votes: 6 85.7%

  • Total voters
    7

Tokis-Phoenix

先輩
23 Sep 2005
1,275
73
58
This is a thread/poll on numerous views or opinions held by quite a few people on the japanese or their society and wether you feel they are true or right or not, i.e. like in comparison to other others like the US or England, or simply your own opinions on them :) .
 
Interesting poll and questions Tokis-Pheonix.

1. Yes I believe there is alot of pressure on Japanese women to marry and to have children. At least I thought there was. Today I don't think that pressure from parents and society is so strong, but I do know it is strong from the government because of the declining Japanese birth rate. Today I think it is below 1.0 or 1.5.

My wife and I never had children and not a word was said to us. Maybe in private, but not directly to us. Three of my wife's friends have never married and they are in their 40's. So the pressure might not be so strong today as in the past, but I could be mistaken as my wife's friends may be anomalies.

2. Maybe it is so today, but it wasn't so in the past. I worked for two different Japanese trading companies and I was hired for my ability to speak Japanese and to communicate with overseas customers. I definitly had a position that needed to be filled at the time.

3. Racist towards people of color I cannot say. Prejudice or discriminatory, yes. To all races, to some extent. It may seem that way to some, but I do not believe the Japanese people, as a whole, to be pure racist towards people of color. I'm sure other will have a different view on this.

4. I haven't seen any figures on alcoholism in Japan and neither have I known any alcoholics. (By alcoholics I mean people who cannot go a couple of hours without a drink or cannot drink without drinking themselves into a coma everytime.) I have known many men to drink on a daily basis (my father-in-law for one and even I have a couple of drinks on a daily basis) and have worked with a few, but there was never alcohol at work nor did we have any alcoholic beverages when we went out to lunch. And when we did have drinks in the evening it was very rare that we would drink ourselves silly.

I believe that if you ask most Japanese they would say there is no problem with alcoholism in Japan, but I would beg to differ, as I believe the problem to be more widespread than many are led to believe. This is mostly because of society's acceptance of alcohol as a way to help reduce the stress of long work hours and the acceptance that it is ok to have a drink anytime, anywhere and that if one is drunk and making a nuisance out of himself that all is forgiven because of the alcohol. I am still offered alcohol in the morning by the in-laws when I visit Japan to which I politely decline. In the evening, when all is done for the day, that's another story. I never decline.

5. I agree. This cultural phenomena that Japan is so unique in the world and so permeates Japanese culture is something that must stop starting with the schools. I remember a case about 25 years ago where the government refused to lower the import tarrifs on, or increase the imports of, Rossingnol (sp) skis from Europe because the government catagorically stated that Japanese skis were best suited for the ski slopes in Japan because the snow in Japan was different than the snow in other countries! And the Japanese people swallowed every word of it and I'm sure when the question was asked in school by students it was backed up by the teachers. Thus the Japanese grow up believing that snow in Japan is different than snow in other countries. This was said of many things including the sand and sea water. No doubt to prevent the importation and buying of foreign made products.

If the Japanese people were properly taught about other countries, I don't think we would be hearing so many stupid questions about the weather, McDonalds, four seasons and so on. Unless of course the Japanese people just wanted to strike up a conversation, or keep one going, and asked such silly questions. But when the same questions is asked by the majority of people you meet it begins to make you wonder.

6. There always was, and always be, "pressure" (I don't know if that is the correct word for it) among the young women (and those in their 20's!) to look cute or kawaii. The men and boys want it and are made to want it by the promotion of young singers and idols with the crooked tooth or dimples. And fashion magazines and other famous people perpetuate it by dressing that way kawaii and it is emulated by the general population right up to their 20's. I was always dumbfounded how women in their late teens or early 20's would dress like they were 10 or 11 right up to the cute little Hello Kitty, etc. accessories. But hey, that was (is) the fashion and whatever the idols or actresses are wearing, the young women follow. I think it is because of the fetish of older Japanese men to desire women who dress, look, and act like they are young teenagers and they are the ones perpetuating it. I've even seen Sailor Uniforms and other cute clothing being sold in the womans department of some specialty shops in Japan. I wonder how many older women dress that way for their husband or boyfriend?
 
I like the view points you laid out on poll, Tokis-Phoenix.
They are good discussion openers. 👍
I voted for 1,2,4 and 5. And, I think Pachipro summarized everything very nicely, so I'll just add my opinion.

2, since there are more Japanese people with language skill that is sufficient for business these days, job opportunities at international companies seem to be more open to the Japanese.

4, drinking alcohol seems to be a part of their culture that they haven't looked at it as a problem. There are some rehabs for alcoholics, but there are more problems hidden behind the doors. Just like a lot of alcoholics have a hard time admitting that they are in any culture, they ignore the damage done to themselves and the families.

5, I don't really remember being taught that Japan was so unique and superior, but the resorcelessness of world study was painful. The teachers I had in my world history or English classes only used the text books and didn't seem to have any experiences traveling or studying in other countries.

6, I kind of see that happening in the US as well.
 
I am not sure for alcoholics (so I abstain), but I'd say yes for all the others, except for the racist thing (they are not "very racist", but many people are "slightly racist").
 
I've never lived in japan so these are just my observations, which is why i started this thread to see what other people thought of these commonly held notions about japan.
I guess i should start with one of the first commonly held notions.
The biggest thing i have noticed about japan is its "cute" culture, particually directed towards women- this is completely the oposite to how things used to be in some senses for women 100, even 50, years ago(not that they really faired any better).
In the best, the best thing a woman could be seen to acheive was to get married to somone at a young age(the earlier she got married in her life, the better) who was wealthy and/or had a high positive reputation/status in society. She was supposed to attend his every need/desire and never do him wrong, on top of that she was expected to have as many babys as posible, preferably boys. This was all she was expected to do in life and accept.

Its not that different in todays japanese society from what i gather, although instead of being expected to grow up really quickly, they are expected to stay young and cute for as long as posible while still being expected to fullfill most of these desires that japans society has of women.
Things that i have noticed that are seen not to be that cute as far as being a women are conerned in japanese society are;
Being tall
Having big/medium sized feet
Not speaking in a high-pitched child-like voice
Being dominant/not passive over men, espcialllyu in the work place or uni etc
Dressing like an adult if you are under the age of 26
Not being obsessed/interested in cute merchandise

In japan, women are expected to be either cute or sexy. Cute seems to be sexy in itself, but you cant seem to be sexy and expect to be cute. Its like when you are young you are expected to stay as cute as posible for as long as you can, and then suddenly grow up and start acting like a sexy woman when you get older.
It must be very confuzing and difficult for japanese women to full fill so many of the expections they are supposed to achieve to be the ideal woman in japanese society, and still feel happy and secure about themselves as individuals.
For example, what if you have children/babys when you are young(like 20yrs old), but its obviously not good to still try and put up the cute little girl image when you've got 2 toddlers towing behind you? Do you put on the mature sexy mother image, the good little housewife image, or stil try to put on the cute image, particually around those who you dont really know you?
What do you think of all this?
 

若くして子供を産み、育てるお母さん、「ヤンママ」。現在、10代で母親になる女性は30年前の2倍以上に増えている。
Yan mama is young mothers raising thier kids. Now two times more teanage mothers than 30yrs ago.
Yan Mama

I heard some get married when young, for they think their kids would be happy to have young mums.
 
Pachipro said:
3. Racist towards people of color I cannot say. Prejudice or discriminatory, yes. To all races, to some extent. It may seem that way to some, but I do not believe the Japanese people, as a whole, to be pure racist towards people of color. I'm sure other will have a different view on this.

I agree with you on this. I don't think the majority of Japanese have real hatred against foreign people. It's more like they don't know how to act or behave around foreign people and discrimnating against gaijin becomes a self-defense mechanism. Of course, because of the politically correct environment most Western countries are used to, such openly expressed discrimination is seemed as racism.
 
What an interesting post you make about 'cuteness', Tokis-Phoenix. :)
It kind of interests me because it's so different from my culture. And I am so far from cute it's not even funny, so the idea of this kinds of fashion and behaviour exerts a sort of horrified fascination over me!

Partly I think it's an exaggeration of something that is in everyone (or perhaps I should say every culture or society) to some extent - the glorification of youth. It's quite a deep-rooted human instinct, and it has the survival function because youth generally equals more health, energy and vitality, so it's natural for young women/girls to be attractive for men. So of course, women want to look young and girlish... in such things as you describe, it's taken to extremes, trying to look like a 'girl' instead of 'young woman'.

Also, of course, there is an innocence about youth which can be attractive, too, so maybe there is an element of trying to recapture that look.

Plus, these things are fuelled by marketing trends which put the certain emphases on what they think will be a good selling point, so it self-perpetuates.

I think ideas about Japanese women and what is expected of them are changing, in fact. I don't know this from experience though, as I have never lived in Japan - I'm just going off stuff I've read and talked about, so I might be way off the mark. But my feeling is that women are going for more independence, often not getting married until later. And of course, having fewer or no children (hence the startlingly high proportion of old people in Japan compared with children - another reason why youth would seem attractive in that society - the tribe's way of repairing itself, so to speak). I have also heard (newspaper reports, so I can't vouch for how representative it is) of the things like the reverse of hostess bars (like 'host' bars... I don't know the name... ><... where men are the hosts and women go for fun), and housewives turning to prostitution to put extra money in the purse. And to become a 'career woman', it's a lot more acceptable.

It's only to be expected that Japan follows the western countries in this respect, as it follows in others, it just takes longer to catch up (I don't mean this as any disrespect to Japan, you understand; simply that trends from other countries do catch on, as is obvious). So I think women will continue to get more freedoms in Japan. In lots of ways it becomes already less 'traditional'. And I have heard this from 'the horse's mouth' too, not only newspapers and stuff but from my ex who is Japanese and lived there many years and of course had Japanese girlfriends!

There is an issue of women being expected to be submissive and fulfil the desires of men... I think that's an issue in a lot of different cultures, but it takes different forms... thinking about it... even being 'dominant' or strong character can in a way be a form of that... in a sense it's a no-win situation! but I'm kind of joking... it depends on the individual when it gets down to that level.

And as regards your last question about when you have children, and which 'look' shall you go for... IMO your choice of style depends largely on looks, and if a woman can look young and cute, it's ok to choose that style, but it doesn't work if her look is unsuited to it.
 
I was there for 2 months living with my Japanese GF.
1. I didn't notice the pressure about marriage, I think things are changing nowdays there about that.
2. I can't answer this one, but I think it was the case in the past because I heard about it from my friends there.
3. The racism - hell no I don't think they are that way, as you all agreed they are just lacking the experience with foreign people.
4. Oh I think this one is true, and I agree that a great portion of the population won't even aknowledge the problem.
5. Yes their education system should undergo lots of changes to bring it up to our standards. There is too much stereotyping and generalization going on, and the children are learning it from day one in school.
6. This one I also agree on because I witnessed some of these things. MY GF doesn't really follow that policy but she likes to dress in some kind of fashion. I agree that women like to look fashionable and pretty but I don't agree with the childish behaviour they adapot along with it. I was in Akihabara with some girls that I had met previously in a language school in Oakland, and one of them just went nuts over a teddy bear that me and my friend won at the machines for her. FYI she couldn't get the teddy herself and she was lookin sad as a 11 yearold girl, I thought she was ready to cry about it, so we jumped in and got it for her. She is actually 20 years old and I was really surprised on her reactions in that situation. I didn't know what to think anymore. Soon I realized that other women that age tended to be like that also. Not everyone ofcourse but a great portion yes. I even see full grown women that are in their 40's buy cute accessories for their cellphones, some kind of pendents that are 4 kids. I thought I was in a different universe.
On the other hand I saw women so nicely dressed up that they looked straight out of a fashin show in Milano, I just didn't want to immagine the contents of their purses.
I don't like that fact that most of Japanese women are the boss in the kitchen and they always tell you to get out and not to help with anything. I'm no slob and I don't want my woman to groom me all the time. I want to do things on my own and not just for me but for her too.
And I've never seen a woman there that is in a position of power, and that she is actually giving out orders to other men. Women there are just assistents, secretaries, clerks, etc. They just keep the men entertained, they teese them a little, they give them something to talk about.
Younger generations are a bit different towards women, but only if they are in the same age group I think.
I loved it there, I really did. All the people I met were very nice to me and didn't ask me too many silly questions. But they don't know how to act arround foreign people that is true. However, they learn quickly after a few drinks.
 
1 marriage pressure

Still the gokons and the pressure to meet with a nakoto (marriage broker) is constant, though the ages for marrying for both males and females is older now. Women do tend to wait longer now, with 30 being the cutoff date now instead of 25.

2 Many companies don't hire many foreigners. It was only recently that many companies starting putting foreigners on their boards, even at 'international' companies like SONY.

3 I feel a lot of it is still racism. The Japanese governement doesn't have any laws (only in the constitution) concerning racism. In turn, many Japanese, though they might travel overseas, don't seem to be deeply interested in foreign culture nor do they seem to be aware of the nuances of discrimanatory behaviour. Some resident foreigners have lectured me about the 'VIP status' and 'group ostracism' that Japanese use which looks 'remarkably' like racism. I would say this is an excuse and using another label for behaviour that would be unacceptable in other developed countries.

4 There are problems with some people having hobbies of working, drinking, and sleeping. My own father-in-law was drinking after retirement from 10-6 p.m., every day for about 10 years. Now unfortunately, he now seems to have symptons mirroring Alzheimer's.

5 See number 3.

6 I think this has already been answered by some other people earlier. The emphasis is definately on young and cute for most women, with some things almost looking more like kids.
 
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