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Use of し and きゃ at end of sentence

Homerduff

ケビン
2 Jan 2007
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I often hear し at the end of a sentence but don't really understand in which situations it should be added. And less regular きゃ.

Can someone please tell me when they are used ?
 
し at the end of consecutive clauses denotes reasoning, like making a list of reasons for the final clause

ex: 遅かったし、疲れてたし、昨夜マイクとカラオケに行かなかった。
by putting it at the end of a sentence, you're essentially omitting a lot of stuff and just implying that there are perhaps multiple reasons.
ex: あのカメラほしいな。でも高いしね。

as for きゃ, I'm guessing you're referring to the contraction of ~なければいけない (must do)
帰らなければいけない!→ 帰らなきゃ
 
as for きゃ, I'm guessing you're referring to the contraction of ~なければいけない (must do)
帰らなければいけない!→ 帰らなきゃ

I read that きゃ was only a contraction of the なければ part and that you still need いけない after it. Was my source wrong, or did you make a mistake?
 
I read that きゃ was only a contraction of the なければ part and that you still need いけない after it. Was my source wrong, or did you make a mistake?
なければ = なきゃ

and in conversation, いけない is often omitted.
帰らなければいけない = 帰らなければ

so, as nice gaijin said,
帰らなければいけない = 帰らなければ = 帰らなきゃ
 
Ok, thanks!

Also, I read that なければ + ならない is used colloquially and that なければ + いけない sounds odd. Is this information correct?
 
ikenai doesn't sound odd, the main difference between the two is that ~naranai implies that you feel obligated to perform the task, but not doing it still an option. ~ikenai means that you've been commanded to perform the task by some authority figure, so you must do it.
 
I read that きゃ was only a contraction of the なければ part and that you still need いけない genkidesuafter it. Was my source wrong, or did you make a mistake?

「~~ちゃ、ちゃった」をよく使う言い方は少し軽いイメージがありすね 。
なければ + ならないのほうが無難ですね。😌
 
ikenai doesn't sound odd, the main difference between the two is that ~naranai implies that you feel obligated to perform the task, but not doing it still an option. ~ikenai means that you've been commanded to perform the task by some authority figure, so you must do it.

Oh, ok, I understand now. Thanks for the explanation.


「~~ちゃ、ちゃった」をよく使う言い方は少し軽いイメージがありすね 。
なければ + ならないのほうが無難ですね。😌

I think I understand what you are saying, but I would like to make sure since I am rather new to this. You are saying that ちゃ and ちゃった are frequently used in this situation as well, and that they are 'lighter' (which I assume means something like less formal), and that なければ + ならない is 'safe' (which I assume means that it can be used in all situations). Please correct me if I misunderstood your meaning anywhere.
 
You are saying that ちゃ and ちゃった are frequently used in this situation as well, and that they are 'lighter' (which I assume means something like less formal)
Elizabeth said, "it sounds a bit 'lighter' to use these expressions frequently." (since なきゃ/なくちゃ/ちゃった are colloquial expressions.)

なくてはいけない/なくてはならない = なくちゃ
e.g. もう帰らなくてはいけない = もう帰らなくちゃ

てしまった = ちゃった
e.g. 笑ってしまった = 笑っちゃった
 
ちゃった is also a corruption of the verb しまう which is used to show the completness of an action in regretable situations so you'll hear it there too.

電車で本を忘れちゃった = 電車で本を忘れてしまった

If used in the imperative what dialect would that be?? Thus far I was only familiar with the above formal forms plus the colloquial きゃending, I didn't know the ちゃ・ちゃった as in my example could be used for imperatives.
 
Elizabeth said, "it sounds a bit 'lighter' to use these expressions frequently." (since なきゃ/なくちゃ/ちゃった are colloquial expressions.)
なくてはいけない/なくてはならない = なくちゃ
e.g. もう帰らなくてはいけない = もう帰らなくちゃ
てしまった = ちゃった
e.g. 笑ってしまった = 笑っちゃった

なくてはいけない? I can't say that I am familiar with that one. I've heard of just てはいけない being "you must not do" though. So is なくてはいけない just another way of saying "must do" since it would be "must not not do" ?
 
なくてはいけない? I can't say that I am familiar with that one. I've heard of just てはいけない being "you must not do" though. So is なくてはいけない just another way of saying "must do" since it would be "must not not do" ?
you got it 👍
 
なくてはいけない? I can't say that I am familiar with that one. I've heard of just てはいけない being "you must not do" though. So is なくてはいけない just another way of saying "must do" since it would be "must not not do" ?
I can't believe that you don't know "double negation"...
 
Ah, plus,

なければ:
なければ(ba-form of the auxiliary verb ない)
or
なけれ(conditional form of the auxiliary verb ない) + ば(particle)

なくては:
なくて(te-form of the auxiliary verb ない) + は(particle)
or
なく(adverbial form of the auxiliary verb ない) + て(particle) + は(particle)

So all of them, 「なければいけない、なければならない、なくてはいけ ない、なくてはならない」, are double negation terms. ;)
 
ちゃった is also a corruption of the verb しまう which is used to show the completness of an action in regretable situations so you'll hear it there too.
電車で本を忘れちゃった = 電車で本を忘れてしまった
If used in the imperative what dialect would that be?? Thus far I was only familiar with the above formal forms plus the colloquial きゃending, I didn't know the ちゃ・ちゃった as in my example could be used for imperatives.
ちゃう ちゃった (Shimau Shimatta wo mijikaku shita koto) ya きゃ (ikankucha no cha) nado are all basically contractions for children and women to give out a very feminine/girlish vibe. I hear them occasionally from men in Tokyo...but mostly on tv. When used too much, they either have a problem or are gay -- very affected and cloying.
 
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Thanks Elizabeth, always so helpful.
I didn't realize the きゃ was also a femenine pronunciation, I've heard it from (seemingly) normal guys on a few different occasions but perhaps they were from Tokyo.

なければなりません・ならない is luckily what I'm used to anyway. 😌
 
ちゃう ちゃった (Shimau Shimatta wo mijikaku shita koto) ya きゃ (ikankucha no cha) nado are all basically contractions for children and women to give out a very feminine/girlish vibe. I hear them occasionally from men in Tokyo...but mostly on tv. When they either have a problem or are gay -- very affected and cloying.

Thanks for pointing out that they are feminine! I wouldn't have known otherwise, and I might have tried using them! I'm somewhat envious of the Japanese women, though...their side of the language sounds so much better.
 
ちゃう ちゃった (Shimau Shimatta wo mijikaku shita koto) ya きゃ (ikankucha no cha) nado are all basically contractions for children and women to give out a very feminine/girlish vibe. I hear them occasionally from men in Tokyo...but mostly on tv. When they either have a problem or are gay -- very affected and cloying.
なるほど、この前のポストはそういう意味の説明されて たんですね。
語尾に使われる「帰らなきゃ」「帰らなくちゃ」に関し ては女性語のニュアンスが強いかもしれませんが、「な きゃ」「なくちゃ」「ちゃった」音便は男女の別なく会 話では普通に使われますね。もちろん話者の年代や話相 手を含めてシチュエーションにもよりますが。

「あ、ゴメン。今日はうち帰んなきゃ」(サラリーマンなら飲み会断るときとかかな?)
「そうこなくちゃ!」(相手が誘いに 乗ってくれたときの返事として)
「いや~、それで思わず笑っちゃってさぁ」

公式な場では(例えば上司との会話とか)音便避けたほう がいいですが、親しくなった相手に対してずっと「なけ れば」「なくては」口調を続けるのもよそよそしいと思 われる可能性あるでしょうね。
:)
 
窶凖??ケL:
窶堋キ窶堋「窶堙懌?堋ケ窶堙アツ。ツ催??忸窶愿??堙昶?「テ披?堋オ窶堙?「窶督ウ窶愿ッツ」窶堙戸?凪?督。窶堋ェ窶堙ュ窶堋ゥ窶堙ィ窶堙懌?堋オ窶堋スツ。😌
ツ「窶堋ォ窶堙。ツ、窶堋ソ窶堙。ツ、窶堋ソ窶堙。窶堙≫?堋スツ、窶堋ソ窶堙。窶堋、ツ」窶堙最スg窶堋「窶「テサ窶堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙≫?堙??堙債鞘?板青ォ窶廬窶堙遺?ケツソ窶堋ォ窶堙ー窶佚鯛?堙鯛?堙ゥ窶堋ゥ窶堙ァツ、ナスg窶堙ュ窶堙遺?堋「窶堙吮?堋、窶堋ェツ「窶督ウ窶愿ッツ」窶堙≫?堙??堋ア窶堙??堋セ窶堙≫?堋ス窶堙ア窶堙??堋キ窶堙仰。窶堋サ窶堙ェ窶堙坂?牢窶堋ュ窶堋サ窶堙娯?凖岩?堙ィツ。ナ?ツョ窶牢窶堙右lizabeth窶堋ウ窶堙ア窶堙俄?慊ッヒ?督。窶「テ鞘?堙闇津ォ窶ーテー窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堙遺?堋「窶堋ス窶堙溪?堙俄?堙?ツ、 ニ男ニ停?ヲニ但ニ停?愴湛窶堋ェ窶板昶?ーテー窶堙??堋ォ窶堙遺?堋「窶堋、窶堋ソ窶堙最スg窶堋、窶堙娯?敕ー窶堋ッ窶堋ス窶堙吮?堋、窶堋ェ窶督ウ窶愿ッ窶堙遺?堙娯?堙最?テ藩?。窶堋「窶堙遺?堋「窶堙??堋キツ。ナ陳セ窶杯窶堙坂?堙吮?堙ア窶堙??堙俄?愿ッ窶堋オ窶堋「ツ。ツ。ツ。 😌😌😌
 
なるほど、この前のポストはそういう意味の説明されてたんですね。
語尾に使われる「帰らなきゃ」「帰らなくちゃ」に関しては女性語のニュアンスが強いかもしれませんが、「なきゃ」「なくちゃ」「ちゃった」音便は男女の別なく会話では普通に使われますね。もちろん話者の年代や話相手を含めてシチュエーションにもよりますが。
「あ、ゴメン。今日はうち帰んなきゃ」(サラリーマンなら飲み会断るときとかかな?)
「そうこなくちゃ!」(相手が誘いに 乗ってくれたときの返事として)
「いや~、それで思わず笑っちゃってさぁ」

そうですね。。とりとりべに賛成です。使い慣れないうちは気をつけたほうが良いですね。
ありがとうございます。 そいいう指摘は、私にとって 非常に参考になりますね。

でも、人はみな、性格がちがうね。

確かに、「きゃ、ちゃ、ちゃった、ちゃう、」 をよく使う男性をちょっと軽蔑しがちである男性もいますね。😌 その人が私に悪い影響を与えているかもしれません。😊


本当に何と言ったらいいか迷っているとき、相手が話すみたいに、話し方をしてくださいね。

ごめんなさい。今日は、時間が遅くなってしまいました。 次回に続く……
🙂




 
「なきゃ」「なくちゃ」「ちゃった」音便は男女の別なく会話では普通に使われますね。
I agree with Toritoribe-san. There is nothing particularly feminine about the なくちゃ なきゃ contractions that I have detected.
Elizabeth said:
確かに、「きゃ、ちゃ、ちゃった、ちゃう、」 をよく使う男性をちょっと軽蔑しがちである男性もいますね。 その人が私に悪い影響を与えているかもしれません。
There is an alternative:
Instead of for example "しちゃった", you can "man" it up to "しちまった".
Also, I find switching from "行かなきゃ" to something like "行かなけりゃ" sounds a bit more manly.
So you can avoid the syllables "きゃ" and "ちゃ" quite extensively if so desired, and still use contractions. But, I find that most japanese men frequently use them. So in my personal observation, other things dominate language gender, and there is no need to avoid "きゃ", "ちゃ", etc.
語尾に「わ」を使う男たちにはまだ驚きますがね。
Switching to 古語 is somewhat manly sounding imo, but otoh girls who use it sound extremely attractive though 😊
 
I agree with Toritoribe-san. There is nothing particularly feminine about the なくちゃ なきゃ contractions that I have detected.
Oh, women definately use these forms more than men. Freqency equals a feminine nuance. Which is why men use them to appear friendly. The men I know don't like it, though, so all it really boils down to is an issue of personal inclination.

There is an alternative:
Instead of for example "しちゃった", you can "man" it up to "しちまった".
Yeah, but しちまった still it isn't that common at all among men. してしまった is the normal alternative as far as I've ever heard.


Also, I find switching from "行かなきゃ" to something like "行かなけりゃ" sounds a bit more manly.
Sorry I'm not familiar with 行(い?)かなけりゃ。


親しくなった相手に対してずっと「なけ れば」「なくては」口調を続けるのもよそよそしいと思 われる可能性あるでしょうね。
そうですね。友達同士では「行かないと、帰らないと」などでいいでしょうね。
 
Oh, women definately use these forms more than men. Freqency equals a feminine nuance. Which is why men use them to appear friendly. The men I know don't like it, though, so all it really boils down to is an issue of personal inclination.

Hrm, Im not sure I agree that simply because women use a word or grammar pattern more often, that there is a gender nuance. For example, if women were to simply speak more overall, then all words would have a feminine nuance

Yeah, but しちまった still it isn't that common at all among men. してしまった is the normal alternative as far as I've ever heard.
That may be so, but I have not yet heard a women use the form in normal speech at all. Perhaps someone else has ?

Sorry I'm not familiar with 行(い?)かなけりゃ。

I'm sure you know:
行かなければ『ならない』

One possible contraction:
行かなければ→行かなけりゃ
 
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