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The explanatory の particle

qbicc

Kouhai
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Hey,
I have two questions regarding the ways of using the の particle, that Tae Kim has explained in his guide. Those are two examples that he has used in his guide:
Example 2
アリス:今、授業があるんじゃない?
Alice: Isn't it that there is class now?

ボブ:今は、ないんだ。
Bob: Now it is that there is no class.

Alice: Don't you have class now? (Expecting that there is class)
Bob: No, there is no class now. (Explanatory)

Example 3
アリス:今、授業がないんじゃない?
Alice: Isn't it that there isn't class now?

ボブ:ううん、ある。
Bob: No, there is.

Alice: Don't you not have class now? (Expecting that there is no class)
Bob: No, I do have class.

I was wondering what exactly the following two sentences would mean then:
1: 今、授業があるの?
2:今、授業がないの?
My guess is that those mean:
1: Is it that there is class now?
2: Is it that there is no class now?
But wouldn't those two questions have the same meaning as the two example questions?
In terms of what the answer would be and what you are asking?

My second question is:
Would it be correct to use だ after an i-adjective, if the explanatory の is also used? Like in those example sentences that I hope are correct:
これが大きいんじゃない?
うん、大きいんだ。
And if this is not correct, how would I answer as a male in explanatory tone? Since I have read that only putting の at the end without だ would sound female.
 
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Toritoribe

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The key is whether the questioner has the nuance "Expecting that there is class/there is no class" or not. 授業がある/ないんじゃない? has this nuance, as in the explanation.
This is a bit complicated, but 今、授業あるの/ないの? is basically a pure yes/no question. The speaker is just asking if there is class or not. On the other hand, 今、授業あるの/ないの? often has some connotation, for instance the speaker is surprised to be told that there is/isn't class. The answer differs depending on the situation, of course.

Yes for your second question. のだ/んだ can be attached also to i-adjectives.
 

qbicc

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Ok I got the part about the yes/no question.
On the other hand, 今、授業あるの/ないの? often has some connotation, for instance the speaker is surprised to be told that there is/isn't class.
So this is more like a surprised answer and not a real question asking for new information.

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the が and は particles here. Actually those two are still a bit confusing to me. I checked several grammar guides already, but always when i think 'Ok, I got it now', some new case appears and I have to reconsider again...
So I assume 授業ある/ないんじゃな? is also a yes/no question? What would be the possible answers to that question then?
 

Toritoribe

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So this is more like a surprised answer and not a real question asking for new information.
That's one of the possible situations where those expressions are used, as I wrote "for instance". For example, 今、授業があるの? can be a real question, e.g., the speaker has just heard that there is/will be class some time, and is asking when it is (i.e., the focus of the question is 今 or not). Thus, the context is the key, as always.

So I assume 授業ある/ないんじゃな? is also a yes/no question? What would be the possible answers to that question then?
は works as the contrastive marker in 授業はある/ないんじゃない?. The speaker knows that there isn't/is something other than class, and is asking "but, do/don't you have class?".
The answers are うん、あるよ。 or ううん、ないよ。 for あるんじゃない?, and うん、ないよ。 or ううん、あるよ。 for ないんじゃない?, thus, it's the same as 授業ある/ないんじゃない?.
 

qbicc

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OK, I have read the whole thread 2 or 3 times now and compared the different cases and I think I got it. The context dependence in Japanese can really be difficult when learning the grammar... Guess for the more complex parts of the grammar it is better to learn from applied examples with context, instead of wondering "what would the sentence mean, when I exchange this word for that"
Anyway:Thanks a lot for explaining all of this to me!
 

Toritoribe

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Guess for the more complex parts of the grammar it is better to learn from applied examples with context, instead of wondering "what would the sentence mean, when I exchange this word for that"
Yes, that's the best way to learn the difference.
 
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