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The cause of the problem

ElChe

先輩
30 Oct 2003
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You see people the cause of these juvenile crimes is all because of the Japanese system.It's always the systems fault.You see the system is always trying to control their lives,like making them wear uniforms,pressure them to work hard or else not get into a good school,parental and peer pressure.It really get's complicating.The only way teens know how to express themselves and rebel is the gothic clothes that they wear after school.And after their teen lives are over the adult part of their lives come,they have to work and wear uniforms again for the rest of their lives.It's a sad,sad system that badly needs reform.
 
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what are you talking about you fortene it ses so in your file thing when you click on your name.
 
Sorry to shed light on the truth of the matter, but it's outside influences coming from America that are the reason for youth crimes. This isn't to say that it's completely America's fault, but I do remember a time (even though I'm young myself) when Japan's education system and youth were admired by America for their discipline and dedication to their studies.

America's pop culture has had a big influence on the youth of Japan in glamorizing such rebellion. Unfortunately, those who misinterpret this message of independence often correlate it to theft and other deviance. Those kids who go around wearing gothic clothing and dressing up like characters you may find in an anime are merely showcasing the effects that America's pop culture has had on Japan's youth.

The only thing that really needs reform is the influences that America has had on the "Japanese system." I don't mean to offend anyone if this hits home personally, but when was the last time you heard a Japanese student coming to school with some serious weapons and murdering everyone in the building? Don't criticize other nations before you can solve the problems in your own.Uniformityis what keeps Japan's crime rate the lowest in the world. "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down," is a popular saying in Japan; also a main reason why it's one of the most safe nations in the world in terms of crime rates.

But all arguments aside, I must say kudos to the Che` signature.
 
My long 2 cents

Both of you make some good points, though I may not agree with you.

I have a tough time believing that recent American pop imports glamorize rebellion against a system to the point that it produces a rise in youth crime. One could argue that American pop culture has always had a good helping of rebellion in it. If American pop imports mean more youth crime, why didn't we also see spikes in youth crime back in the days of James Dean, Elvis, the Beattles and the 60's in general? True, against the gyrations of Ms. Spears, the gangsta image, and all the rest, Elvis seems like small potatos. But remember, there was a time when Elvis and his hips were considered too racey for TV and hippies would destroy te moral fabric of America's youth. We can't just pass a rising youth crime off on American pop culture imports.

I also don't think that the nail that stands up gets hammered down has that much impact either on controlling crime rates. We could get into a long discussion about the development of law enforcement in the East and West but that is for another thread. In short, I don't think Japanese teens benefit that much from this mentality anyway. Folks at the big companies in Japan have started to realize that strict formality and uniformity does nothing much for making a dynamic economic environment. Some have been making changes towards a free environment for the exchange of ideas. As companies demand more freer thinking employees, schools will start looking for ways to encourage such expressions. But again, this topic is a bit far afield and a bit more complex in its relationships. Best saved for another thread.

Also, there is not much to point to the idea that a lack of demanding conformity will make for better teens or lower youth crime. The US is a very good example of that.

If you free the youth of Japan to, for example, wear their own clothes to school, they are not going to all become successful and lawabiding. Pressures to perform come at different times in different school of thought. In Japan, for better or for worse, it comes earlier in life. You have tests to get into the right high school (sometimes middle schol), tests to get into the right college and so on (but once you get into college, name recognition alone can get you a good job. Show up to class and you are set for life (almost)).

Somehow getting rid of this system might make students happier, but I doubt, all things considered, that it would impact on youth crime. There is such a thing as pushing too hard, but if you stop pusing all together, only the ones really driven to succeed will try their hardest (IMHO). We all need a kick in the pants once in awhile, we all need a challenge.

So how can we account for rising youth crime in Japan? Good question. I myself have yet to come up with an answer I am happy with. It plays into the economic situation, shifts in the family structure that are not as easy to see from outside, and the struggle of educators to find a message the young people in Japan can understand and use, etc. It is not as simple as pop cuture grinding down "Japanese-ness" (again a topic for another thread) or a "oppressive" system by other people's standards.

I am not attacking you Jian, ElChe, I really liked your posts, so no hard feelings okay:)
 
No problemo.. didn't seem like an attack at all; just you stating your opinions and thoughts. Nothing wrong with that, no? ok later
 
Thanks for the feedback. Better safe than sorry when it comes to these things...
 
i disagree wholeheartedly that america is the cause of youth violence in japan. i would like to hear more about your opinions on this however. while it's true that american mass media may not be helping anyone or changing anything for the positive, it is certainly not the cause of the problem.

it is simply history repeating itself and is very closely related to japan during the end of the tokugawa rule in the mid-1800s. again, the initial cause of the fall was foreign countries (especially russia at first) pressuring japan to open up as a trade market with them. and after japan finally did open up, the merchants eventually became richer than the warrior class who was ruling japan. the tokugawa bafuku had a saying regarding place in society, that warriors would always be warriors and merchans would always be merchants, and people accepted this. it wasn't until the merchants realized that they could become rich that they started to cross these boundaries, which is unheard of in japanese society in general.

sorry if that's a poor analogy but i really think that todays youth can be closely compared to the merchants of old. they are simply looking for a way to break free from their molds so to speak. it is the japanese social structure that is the cause of this. i'm not saying that the system is wrong or right, i'm just saying that's how it is. well, in my opinion at least.
 
People cause violence.
People create systems.
What's wrong with people?
People have many answers.
People also disagree.

I'd wager it's hormones, the will of God, the Tao, Coca-cola, Pocky, mini-skirts and Saturday morning cartoons. :)
 
i blame japan's education system.
it focuses too much on study and they should teach more about morals and wats the simple rights and wrong.
 
I'm not one for placing blame. I have opinions, but you can't really make judgements until you know EVERYTHING and who wants to learn all of that? I think it's a combination of things really. First of all, sure there's a rise in crime, but is it really a problem? I haven't heard much background on this crime spike, so I may be completely wrong on that. Let me address this first. Is American media play a part in this? Oh, yes. How could it not? Japenese teens see the US as very cool. They try to adapt it into their lives, and companies now place English all over their goods to make them seem more appealing. American media affects OUR youth, so it will affect theirs also. I could go into this more, but that's basically the short version. Not the best argument, but I hope it makes sense. As for the "Japanese System", it's one of the main reasons crime has been so low in Japan. It's been proven that schools with enforced uniform policies have lower crime rates, and better grades. I'm serious here! By repressing individuality, you get a well working conforming machine. I'm not saying this is good, however. In fact, I think it's somewhat awful. Due to American influence, I think that Japanese youth are realizing that they CAN be individuals, and they want to demonstrate this. Unfortunately, some of them are only just conforming to a new group based on these influences, and not being themselves. I guess, what I'm trying to get at is that they probably just want to be cool. I'm sure you all know, or have known teenagers who commit crimes like vandalism, or just rebelling in general, to make others think they're cool. Japanese teenagers are people too, and don't most people want others to admire them? So, I don't think it's the system at all. It's not a good system overall, but it actually keeps crime lower. The education system probably doesn't teach morals, however society does. There's a lot of pressure from society and family to be polite, and do the correct thing. I don't think they need anymore of that in school. Personally, I hated it when they made us take Health Class, and tried to teach us about good desicion making. In fact, I was driven to do the opposite, I despised it so much. For the first time in my life, I had the urge to break windows for no good reason. Maybe that was because I'd do anything to escape that class. Okay I'm rambling. So, if we are to blame anything, let's place it on the "cool factor". Am I making sense, or am I talking to myself? Someone should tell me these things.
 
A sea of ignorance

ElChe said:
You see people the cause of these juvenile crimes is all because of the Japanese system.It's always the systems fault.You see the system is always trying to control their lives,like making them wear uniforms,pressure them to work hard or else not get into a good school,parental and peer pressure.It really get's complicating.The only way teens know how to express themselves and rebel is the gothic clothes that they wear after school.And after their teen lives are over the adult part of their lives come,they have to work and wear uniforms again for the rest of their lives.It's a sad,sad system that badly needs reform.
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, very funny! Another post like this and I will go dead!
"El Che"... ah, ah, ah ah, ah!
Comerade... Standup! Comerade... sitdown! W Lenin! W Freedom! In the way of the soviet... bwahahahahahahhahahahahah!
Very very funny!
 
Oh, Shidenkai, it's not nice to laugh!! That's very impolite indeed. It's ignorant to be indifferent to other's feelings and opinions, and how very rude! One must consider tact, ya know? No hard feelings, you're amusing, but I can't help but sympathize. I hope you don't mind ^_^ .
 
Excuse me, Yasha, but to read El Che's message, is a "mad mission"... that is a mad post against japanese society and I think that japanese society is the best system. Bye!
 
I can only comment from outside the box as I have yet to visit Japan. But from what I can see, Japan has the best 'system' in the world. Look at what Japan has achieved with this system. From a poor developing country it is now the most advanced and fresh in the world. Sure it has its problems but so does every town/city in every country.
As for American influence, in England it is a BIG problem. Parts of London are now swarming with gun crime and violence. It is plain to see that this is all replicating what the struggling youth see in the USA. I hate to sound like an old moaning geezer but gang culture and rap music have had a terrible influence on the English youth. And I can see how it would affect other countries with vonerable youth.
 
topi said:
I hate to sound like an old moaning geezer but gang culture and rap music have had a terrible influence on the English youth.
Rap music? Yeah, if people listen to something like that, civilization is doomed! 😭

The occurrence of gangs may be related to US influence. But it is much closer related to the social environment in which gangs can flourish.


BTW, rap is 👍 !
 
I Think The Bottom Line Is.....

someone has to teach a child what is right & wrong in his society. He has to learn HE is responciple for his actions and there will be concequences for those actions he takes.
If dad is too busy with work to teach his children, and mom doesn't have time, who will. The schools don't feel it's their place to teach ethics. The religious system
isn't set up to teach the kids right & wrong on a daily basis. Music, movies, TV, & peer pressure sure aren't working hard to teach kids what's right. Everyone seems to agree it's important for things to be taught to a child at a young age for them to sink in and have some effect.
Everything a young person sees on todays news is very negative! I think we have to make sure "mom&dad" do
the job TOGEATHER as a team if we want our children to turn out better. I don't think it matters what country they are growing up in. Just my personal feelings, no scientific facts to back it with!

Frank
:eek:
 
Yea, sounds right Frank.
No matter how many influences there are in the world, we are all still human and able to think seperately though.
But certain things dont help.
 
Frank's right. It's the Gen-X attitude that's spreading. I'm an American, and I beleive that it started in America. Parents not holding their kids responsible, giving them whatever they want, not being involved in their education, and a total lack of discipline, not to mention lack of respect for adults. That's how it started, and it spread beyond control.
 
It's quite obvious. Imagine being doomed from the day you're born.
From the very moment you become aware of society, you know how most of your life is going to be like. No escape. And you're already half way there.
 
I have been through several of your answers and noted that each one is trying to justify or condemn the youths' behavior in Japan, without recognizing that most of the problems should be considered the adults' fault for directing children towards an highest education and technology, which I consider the Japanese one, one of the highest in this world.
There is an old Italian proverb that stats YOU CANNOT keep the wine barrel full of wine and at the same time have a wife drunk, this mean you have to give up or accept changes in your life (tradition, behavior, interrelation in order to lead the world, at least, in technology).
Yes, I agree with you that in the world of today, it is a disgrace to see children taking drugs, getting drunk and living a libertine life, this things didn't happen 50 or 100 years ago and not only in Japan, at that time people were living within small communities, didn't have cars, motorbike, movies, radio, stereo TVツ… etc..etc..etcツ… now, since you elected to change your way of life and follow the progress, you have to accept the negative part too and instead of accusing other countries for what it is wrong, you/we should work together and try to understand why a percentage of our youths are behaving in a certain way and once establish it , we should try to find a solution and help those children to get a certain balance in their life.
I am not well documented in your country's way of life and if I am wrong I apology, however, it appears to me that you have a too rigid social structure and there is no or a very little recognition for a poorly educated people and having said the above, what do you thing is going to be a reaction of those people that for lack of financial support or mental capacity cannot become chief or director or ..any thing respected and/or venerated by the societyツ…I would not be surprised if several, if not most of them, will turn its live towards some thing more palatable, crime included, than being a pariah in the society.
I apology, again, if my words did offend some one but unless we wake up and recognize our failures, we will never find a proper solution.
 
Development and Emergence of a Culture

In the early 60s, you could walk through the streets of New York any time of day or night and never think twice about your safety- I dont know this personally, Im too young, but I hear older friends romanticize about this. Today, you can pretty much do the same, however during the 80s, you would NEVER do something like that- it was truly dangerous with drug dealers and addicts everywhere and other raunchy elements lurking.

Any repressed culture that is not allowed to release all inherent aspects of what it means to be a human being in the larger context of society has to rebound from its repression. A one sided culture where the darker elements of society have no outlet or visibility or means of expression will eventually turn against itself and I believe this is happening in Japan. Sure, they might see elements in American society as role models for expressing these darker elements, but certainly this society is not the cause. Utopian society at this point in the evolution of civilization has not been realized, and if you seeone you are not looking deep enough.

Japanese youth will calm down, but this release has been a long time coming- and the positive elements of this self expression are admirable.
 
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