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Should the U.S intervene in Iraq again ?

Hezam

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i would like to know what American people think of the current U.S intervene in Iraq, Obama's government claimed that they attacks will be against ISIS to protect other groups like Christians, Yezidis, while ignoring millions of Syrians and Sunni Iraqis dying everyday from Assad's and Maliki's milicias.
- Do you support the US to intervene again ?
- Why do you support or do not support the current intervene in Iraq ?
 

Majestic

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Hello Hezam

I think you are trying to create a contradiction where one doesn't exist.

In the first place, I think opposition of ISIS is in everyone's interest. It seems to be a particularly cruel, narrow-minded, destructive, sectarian group with no regard for the lives of men, women, or children who don't submit to their version of Islam. So I think it is in the best interests of humanity to oppose this group. It would be very agreeable if the islamic world would unite against this group. Since this isn't going to happen, I do not object to the leader of Iraq asking for help, and receiving it from the US.

In the second place, the US is not ignoring the situation in Syria. As you surely know, the US is providing support to anti-Assad forces, and if I'm not mistaken the US has made a number of public statements supporting the idea of a post-Assad regime. But "anti-Assad" is a wide group, and unfortunately it includes ISIS. So the US has to be very cautious with its support. After the first reports of Assad using poison gas against its civilians, there was a brief period where more vigorous support was generated, but many in the US feared US involvment in yet another middle-east conflict, and many feared that weapons would end up going to ISIS, and so support for anti-Assad forces diminished.

Regarding Maliki, I don't know that Maliki killed millions of Sunnis. In fact, "millions dying every day" is a gross exaggeration. If there were a million of any group who died in a single day, it would be astonishing. And the US has not been ignoring him. The US has been actively seeking his removal from power. Reading the news in the last few hours, it looks like they may have succeeded.

So, as a member of the human race, I would say opposition to ISIS is a good thing.

How about you?
 

Hezam

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Hello Hezam

I think you are trying to create a contradiction where one doesn't exist.

In the first place, I think opposition of ISIS is in everyone's interest. It seems to be a particularly cruel, narrow-minded, destructive, sectarian group with no regard for the lives of men, women, or children who don't submit to their version of Islam. So I think it is in the best interests of humanity to oppose this group. It would be very agreeable if the islamic world would unite against this group. Since this isn't going to happen, I do not object to the leader of Iraq asking for help, and receiving it from the US.
The Assad and his army are not any different from ISIS, they are killing every person who doesn't submet to their rule, Could you please explain to me what difference you see in the two groups ? didn't the Assad and the Shia milicia from several countries killed over 200.000 Syrian for "Religious" reason ?

In the second place, the US is not ignoring the situation in Syria. As you surely know, the US is providing support to anti-Assad forces, and if I'm not mistaken the US has made a number of public statements supporting the idea of a post-Assad regime. But "anti-Assad" is a wide group, and unfortunately it includes ISIS. So the US has to be very cautious with its support. After the first reports of Assad using poison gas against its civilians, there was a brief period where more vigorous support was generated, but many in the US feared US involvment in yet another middle-east conflict, and many feared that weapons would end up going to ISIS, and so support for anti-Assad forces diminished.
The U.S and the UN did not do anything on the ground to stop Gas attacks on civilians, TNT barrels, mass murder against civilians, it means some sort of supporting the Assad when they can do more than watching those monsters killing people in brutal ways !
If you give me a knife while my enemy has a gun it doesn't mean support.
Another question, Why not listing Shia milicias as terrorest groups ?

Regarding Maliki, I don't know that Maliki killed millions of Sunnis. In fact, "millions dying every day" is a gross exaggeration. If there were a million of any group who died in a single day, it would be astonishing. And the US has not been ignoring him. The US has been actively seeking his removal from power. Reading the news in the last few hours, it looks like they may have succeeded.
Millions being attacked and killed everyday in big numbers means killing millions.

So, as a member of the human race, I would say opposition to ISIS is a good thing.

How about you?
ISIS are barbaric organization, they should be fought by Sunni Muslims, Why? because the U.S is acting like shia nation now, As i know Iraq and Syrian sunnis are joining ISIS now, too many of them because they saw how the UN and the US react in Syria and Iraq, It seems the Shia are supported to murder sunnis !
ISIS is a very VERY mysterious organization, i've never seen such Jihadi group rich and powerful like them, not just that but they are destroying the region, killing civilians which non of the Jihadi groups have done ever.
i believe that ISIS was created to stop the Arab spring and to justify the U.S return to Iraq.
i'm not and i will never be on ISIS side or any barbaric sycho groups, they are sick just like Assad and Black Water and other mercenaries.
 
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We should stay out of there. If they want to kill each other off, why should we stop them?

I feel bad for the innocents, but our intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't been successful, so why try again?
 

Majestic

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Hello Hezam,

If both Assad's forces and ISIS are ruthless killers of civilians, then we should be in agreement that action opposing these undemocratic, cruel regimes is basically an acceptable and welcome thing.

The US already opposes Assad. Obama now wishes $500 million more in anti-Assad support. You are mistaken when you say the US does not do anything to stop the attacks on civilians. The US has supported the insurgency to a large extent. After the gas attacks, the US and the UK both proposed much greater support for the insurgency, but the pacifists in both countries claimed there was not enough evidence to merit more support. In fact, many people claimed the gas attacks were "false flag" operations - a claim that we have seen recently on this forum in another thread. Surely you remember this. Anyway, the US is indeed supporting the insurgency - a very thankless job, I must say. Apparently the US support is not enough for your liking. Fair enough.

Iraq's leader (although he may not be the leader as of this minute) asked the US for support against ISIS, and the US provided it. Assad's opposition asked for US support against Assad, and we have provided limited support because of the various problems with supporting an insurgency created by an alliance which includes fundamentalist regimes.

If Sunni Muslims wish to oppose ISIS I'm sure the US would welcome this. The real problem, though, is tribalism, religious intolerance, and people who see divine sanction in committing violence against their fellow human beings.

I think these people ought to be stopped before they become even more powerful and nasty, but I understand US reluctance to commit entirely to doing this.
 

Hezam

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i can see why the US foreign policy sucks and always fail.
 

Dotanbatan

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They are damned if they do, damned if they don't in the eyes of most in the Middle East it seems.
The U.S. Once again find themselves between a rock and hard place.

I think the right decision has been made. ...... They have been asked by the elected government of Iraq to support their efforts to repel the advances of ISIS and also those from the Kurds. The evil, extremist religious beliefs of the ISIS groups are openly calling for and now perpetrating genocide.

It is said that pictures paint a thousand words ... And that is one cliche that certainly holds true if you look at the recent photot tweeted by an ISIS fighter in Syria. It shows his Australian born and raised, primary school aged son, holding up the severed head of a Syrian soldier. The caption reads "That's my boy".
The inhumanity inherent in what ISIS are doing and fighting to achieve is evident for any rational person to see.

Obama is right in supporting the battle to stop ISIS. He is also right in not putting any ground forces in Iraq or Syria. The American people don't want it, as don't the people in the region.
 

alecgraham

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We need to bomb ISIS and try to get food and water to the Yazidis. Yes, they perform honor killings, but no one deserves to die of dehydration.
 

Mark of Zorro

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I simply don't have enough information to decide on this one. The "official" reasons given sure do "sound" right, but, I have this feeling in my gut that its hokus pokus again. And I have a hard time believing this is about pure humanitarianism or even that its mostly about that.

I also have a feeling that if the U.S. had given the Kurds their own state when they had the chance, this would not be happening.

So anyway, I have serious misgivings. But I admit I have no clear evidence. Who really does at this point in time? Not any of us I should think.



It shows his Australian born and raised, primary school aged son, holding up the severed head of a Syrian soldier. The caption reads "That's my boy".

Thank you for saying this Dotanbatan. I have read many comments about the incident and they all want to make it an Islam thing or anything to distance it all from the fact that it was an Aussie kid of White European Stock in that pic. The way the PM tiptoed around that was sickening.
 

Mark of Zorro

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We need to bomb ISIS and try to get food and water to the Yazidis. Yes, they perform honor killings, but no one deserves to die of dehydration.

I find it hard to support airstrikes and bombs in general. Its always cowardly and often comes with so much civilian death that it totally erases any idea of doing it in order to protect OTHER civilians.

Bombing ISIS on some empty plain, desert or mountain sounds acceptable to me, though barely. But I am not absolutely clear that the plan is to catch them in such a place and only such a place.

I would actually prefer a wall of soldiers between ISIS and these people we are trying to protect from a massacre. I cannot say I have any faith that just bombing them is going to work, even despite my lack of info.
 

Hezam

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What do most people in the Middle East want the US to do? (Not that you get to vote on it.)
People here want the US to STOP intervene OR support them (people not Governments) so one of two, intervene in Syria and Iraq or DO NOT intervene AT ALL.

Dotanbatan said:
I think the right decision has been made. ...... They have been asked by the elected government of Iraq to support their efforts to repel the advances of ISIS and also those from the Kurds. The evil, extremist religious beliefs of the ISIS groups are openly calling for and now perpetrating genocide.
Elected government ? or the government that came to rule by the American tanks ? are you blind or playing with facts !
Talking about evil ONLY when it's a crazy mobs of Sunni Muslims not Persian or Jewish manslayers !! How stupid.

It is said that pictures paint a thousand words ... And that is one cliche that certainly holds true if you look at the recent photot tweeted by an ISIS fighter in Syria. It shows his Australian born and raised, primary school aged son, holding up the severed head of a Syrian soldier. The caption reads "That's my boy".
The inhumanity inherent in what ISIS are doing and fighting to achieve is evident for any rational person to see.
You can see only if it comes from Muslim mobs, but when American soldiers keep Afghani dead parts (fingers) as trophies you become blind and careless, It's ok if it's done by your nation, And you ask WHY do they hate us !!

Obama is right in supporting the battle to stop ISIS. He is also right in not putting any ground forces in Iraq or Syria. The American people don't want it, as don't the people in the region.
You will see what your Obama cause by making such stupid decision not attacking the Assad but attacking ISIS, just watch and see.

We need to bomb ISIS and try to get food and water to the Yazidis. Yes, they perform honor killings, but no one deserves to die of dehydration.
only if they are Palestinians or Syrians, i think you would not disagree if they die of dehydration.

I'm still wonder why don't many people understand the lessons, over and over but they still do the same mistake, i said several times that supporting dictators will create extremist groups, i said that before ISIS appear, Wrong decisions create chaos, the region is full of shiz already because of the wrong decisions, If the UN supported the Free Syrian Army in the first place there will be no ISIS no Jihadists there or in Iraq, But they did the wrong decision, Same happened in Iraq, It's a series of wrong decisions.
Why am i discussing this ? because i don't want more extremist groups to be created then attack the US in the name of Islam, But what can i do if nobody give a damn and don't lestin or even don't understand or dont want to understand ? Why should i care then ?

Thanks for taking time to post your opinions and sorry for the angry post.
 
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"People here want the US to STOP intervene OR support them (people not Governments) so one of two, intervene in Syria and Iraq or DO NOT intervene AT ALL."

I favor the NOT AT ALL. At our current level of meddling, we have to rely on friendly governments to govern their own populations. We can't micro-manage all ME countries. And you wouldn't want us to. Imagine US troops policing your streets? Telling your politicians what to do?
 

alecgraham

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From the Times of India:
WASHINGTON: US defense department officials said late Wednesday that United States airstrikes and Kurdish fighters had broken the Islamic militants' siege of Mount Sinjar, allowing thousands of the Yazidis trapped there to escape. //end quote
Hooray for bombing.
 

Hezam

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From the Times of India:
WASHINGTON: US defense department officials said late Wednesday that United States airstrikes and Kurdish fighters had broken the Islamic militants' siege of Mount Sinjar, allowing thousands of the Yazidis trapped there to escape. //end quote
Hooray for bombing.
Hooray ISIS was created in 2006, hooray their leader was released by US military, hooray they have a state bigger than Jordan, hooray the US just decided to drop firecrackers on ISIS, hooray ISIS is serving the US just like Alqaeda did, hooray you don't know they were created by your bad people, hooray ISIS members are preaching in London while police officers are doing nothing,

ISIS supporters hand out leaflets on Oxford Street encouraging move to Islamic State | Mail Online
 

alecgraham

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alecgraham

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And Hezam, I thought you made a thread to ask about current and future intervention? If you don't want us to answer, or if you only want an answer that agrees with yours, why make a thread? Or at least, why phrase it as a question instead of a rant?
 

Hezam

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It was a mistake to post when i'm tired or mad, i apologize for the inappropriate posts and for using caps, sorry again.
of course i did not post this thread or any other thread for answers that agree with mine, i just wanted to know the US peoples' opinion on the new intervene in Iraq and unluckily i was shocked by some posts that i consider irresponsible.
 

alecgraham

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That's ok. I know you're passionate about this subject and you have good reasons to be. Believe me, when the next 9/11 happens, I'll be passionate too. I hope you understand that my hooray is for the destruction of ISIS members and the escape of so many Yazidis. It's small, but it's a start.

Of course, history and background are important, and you're making valid points about the West's past mistakes and bad choices. But, I'm answering your question. I'm on target.
 

Hezam

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i hope and pray that no more 9/11 happens ever, And i hope Arab remove the rest of dictators and ISIS and make better Arab world.
 

Hezam

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i can't believe how the British government react towards ISIS supporters in Britain! accoding to CNN there are too ISIS flags and Baghdadi pictures in London.
It's very weird to see the Western reaction against ISIS, it's not like how they react against AlQaeda, Not to mention the newest car models with ISIS and millions of dollars and on top of that they are selling oil freely !!
i have a big doubt that ISIS is Saudi/Irani/American organization to stop the revolution in Syria and Iraq, if you think deeply in this you will realize that ISIS saved Irani and Saudi agenda.
 

Richard Sharpe

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I say: no.

I remember the days when the U.S. considered Iraq, other than Israel, to be its strongest ally in the Middle East, right before Gulf War I. Saddam Hussein was set-up as the counter to Ayatollah Khomeini- after POTUS Carter abandoned the Shah Pahlavi to the Shiite Revolution. What happened to Saddam Hussein by the way?

These fakers in politics in the U.S. when they constantly pontificate about the Middle East (or Russia or what have you) don't fool me one bit. I say: for every U.S. politician advocating another military adventure in Iraq (or elsewhere) let him or her contribute a son or daughter to the armed effort. The American people are frankly sick to death, literally (how many children of Congresspeople come home in bodybags?), of the wars the federal government are constantly forcing onto us.
 

Mark of Zorro

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Richard Sharpe you are a breath of fresh air and I like your attitude.

the wars the federal government are constantly forcing onto us.

There never seems to be a shortage of volunteers or war supporters. So while I certainly feel these wars are pushed on me, and maybe you too, I can't say "us" in the sense of the American people.

But then if you mean tricked or brainwashed from grade 1, then I would be in agreement.

let him or her contribute a son or daughter to the armed effort.

Again, I like the attitude. But we have to remember that their sons are not their property to send to war. They need to be held responsible in other ways.

That said, if they ever start a draft, their kids can be first on the list.
 

Dotanbatan

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Here is a great article outlining where the key countries stand in relation to the Islamic State.

BBC News - Islamic State: Where key countries stand

The financial support for IS looks like it is mainly coming from wealthy individuals in Saudi Arabia and Quatar, however the Kings of both countries fear the threat that IS poses to their monarchies, and are officially opposing them.

I believe that IS will eventually be driven out of Iraq, but that will then force them to concentrate their efforts in Syria and worryingly, Lebanon and perhaps even Jordan?

Dark times ahead for Syria and the whole region!
 
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