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Shanghai by Yokomitsu Riichi

Toritoribe

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The writer described that's 薄暗い, so it might be somewhat relieved... Or, it's for vomiting, perhaps?
 

Majestic

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The only thing I can guess (without having read the book) is that he is trying to describe the chaos of a Shanghai restaurant in the 1920s or 1930s.
 

karenk

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The writer described that's 薄暗い, so it might be somewhat relieved... Or, it's for vomiting, perhaps?
Yes, 薄暗い makes me think that it might be somewhat secluded...
 

karenk

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The only thing I can guess (without having read the book) is that he is trying to describe the chaos of a Shanghai restaurant in the 1920s or 1930s.
You are spot on about the author's intention.
 

karenk

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Hi, I'm having a hard time trying to make sense of the following passage: 勝ち誇った華奢な宮子の微笑が、長く続いた青葉のトンネルの下を潜(くぐ)っていく。坦々砥(と)のように光った道。薔薇の垣根。腹を映して辷(すべ)る自動車。イルミネーションの牙城へと迫るアルハベット。甲谷はここまで来ると、再び彼がそのようにも負かされ続けた外国人たちの礼譲を、支那人ではないということを示さんがためばかりにさえも、重(おもん)じなければならぬのだった

Are イルミネーション and アルハベット literarely ilumination and alphabet? I know that is supposed to be poetic but it doesn't make much sense to me. And could anyone explain the grammar and meaning of 示さんがためばかりにさえも? The character can't avoid admiring the consideration the foreigners show towards him when they don't treat/see him as a Chinese(?)
 

Toritoribe

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Are イルミネーション and アルハベット literarely ilumination and alphabet? I know that is supposed to be poetic but it doesn't make much sense to me.
I think it expresses that there are plenty of illuminations and alphabet used in signs, and アルハベット would be a metaphor of the Western (civilization).

And could anyone explain the grammar and meaning of 示さんがためばかりにさえも?
The base is 示さんがためにも, meaning "to show~", and ばかり and さえ are inserted for emphasis "only" and "even".

The character can't avoid admiring the consideration the foreigners show towards him when they don't treat/see him as a Chinese(?)
礼譲 would refer to their(foreigners') treatments towards Japanese people, thus, it expresses that a fact that he can enter the park means that he is not Chinese, so, the first half of your interpretation is not so wrong.
The subject of 示さん is 甲谷. The reason he needs to show admiration is also to show that he is not Chinese.
 

karenk

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Hi Tori!
Here:
あたしには、あなたの仰言(おっしゃ)ることが、分らない。」とオルガはいった。
 ――つまり、愛の言葉を聞きかけたら、わけの分らぬことをいうが良いという主義なんだ、と参木は思うと淋しくなった。オルガは一層しおれて歩き出した。

Is Sanki refering to himself or to Olga? I believe that he is thinking that he is the one who prefers to say nonsense when hears amorous words, am I wrong? Is 聞きかける synonymous with "hear"?
 

Toritoribe

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Yes, I, too, think he is referring to himself because of 聞きかけた. Olga said "あたし、あなたがもう少しあたしの傍にいて下されば、と思うのよ。" before their conversation about Bazarov, so 愛の言葉 must refer to this words.
聞きかける is 聞く + ~かける "to be about to~".
 

karenk

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Hi! Can I say that Sanki looked at Olga's face as if he was looking at her legs? I.e, her face didn't mean anything to him?

参木はオルガの顔を、まるで投げ出された足でも見るように眺めていた。が、彼はまたそのまま出ようとした
 

Toritoribe

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Right. He wouldn't think her face was a human face, which had a meaning, an emotion, feelings, etc..
 

karenk

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Thank you, Tori!

Can you help me figure out this part of the dialogue: そんなら、こっちの眼の色だって分るだろう。首を切られてお附きになるなら、首なんか切られなくたってすんだんだ。

Is Sanki saying that he has not got fired just to became Koya's attendant?
 

karenk

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And does "馬鹿の限りを尽そう" mean that they should be as stupid as they can just for today?

今日はひとつ、二人で馬鹿の限りを尽そうじゃないか。まだまだ人生には、面白いことがいくらだってあるんだぜ。

Thanks!
 

Toritoribe

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Can you help me figure out this part of the dialogue: そんなら、こっちの眼の色だって分るだろう。首を切られてお附きになるなら、首なんか切られなくたってすんだんだ。

Is Sanki saying that he has not got fired just to became Koya's attendant?
Sanki is saying that if he can be 甲谷's attendant, he didn't need to get fired, i.e, Sanki got fired in the same reason/sense that he can't be 甲谷's attendant (= to obey 甲谷's orders).

And does "馬鹿の限りを尽そう" mean that they should be as stupid as they can just for today?
Yes.
 

karenk

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What about here: うっかりしている隙に、後ろから金を握らしてまたにやにやだ。それで落ちる.

Is he the one been bribed? Or is he the one who is bribing the chinese? I would go with the last one...

Thanks!
 

Toritoribe

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Yes it's the latter. He is the one who is bribing.
 

karenk

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Hi! What are your thoughts about the following passage:
まア、そろそろ、馬鹿にし始めたのね。あたしの恋人なんか、あたしにこんなことをさせたりするもんですか。」
 参木は宮子が両手を拡げたように思われた。彼はオルガの跳ね上った足と宮子の足とを較べながら、宮子の傍へどっかと坐ってまたアルバムを取った。

In the first sentence Miyako is saying that her lovers are not the type of guys who would allow her to behave the way she does with Sanki, right?

Now I don't understand what 両手を拡げたように could mean in this context, any clue? Thanks!
 

karenk

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And I can't make heads or tails of this passage: 参木は彼女の唇の端に流れた嘲弄を感じると、突然、圧(お)しきれぬ若々しさが芽を吹いた
He saw the ridicule in the corner of her lips and suddenly an uncontrolable youthfulness started to bud? Whose youthfulness?

Thanks!
 

Toritoribe

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In the first sentence Miyako is saying that her lovers are not the type of guys who would allow her to behave the way she does with Sanki, right?
Right.

Now I don't understand what 両手を拡げたように could mean in this context
I think it's close to 肩をすくめる there.

And I can't make heads or tails of this passage: 参木は彼女の唇の端に流れた嘲弄を感じると、突然、圧(お)しきれぬ若々しさが芽を吹いた
He saw the ridicule in the corner of her lips and suddenly an uncontrolable youthfulness started to bud? Whose youthfulness?
It's 参木's, probably expressing recklessness, rashness, thoughtlessness or like that.
 

karenk

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In the passage: 昨日も昨日で、ゴルフであたしの取り合いを始めたの。こんなことは、あなたも一寸見ておきなさいよ

Could I say that Miyako is implying that Sanki should see the behavior of her lovers as an example to be followed, something like "watch and learn", instead of just saying that their quarrel was somenthing worth seeing?
 

Toritoribe

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kind of "he thought about giving it up (the argument with Miyako)", right?
She is more likely あきれている.

In the passage: 昨日も昨日で、ゴルフであたしの取り合いを始めたの。こんなことは、あなたも一寸見ておきなさいよ

Could I say that Miyako is implying that Sanki should see the behavior of her lovers as an example to be followed, something like "watch and learn", instead of just saying that their quarrel was somenthing worth seeing?
Yes.
 

karenk

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Hi, could まア、いくらでも、お目出度(めでた)くめそめそしたけりゃ、するがいいよ be translated as " I could as well cry of joy as much as I want"? What's the meaning of するがいい in this context and the grammar of めそめそしたけりゃ? Thank you!
 

Toritoribe

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Hi, could まア、いくらでも、お目出度(めでた)くめそめそしたけりゃ、するがいいよ be translated as " I could as well cry of joy as much as I want"?
お目出度く is an ironical expression there, meaning "happily in the dark", so the actual meaning is close to "stupidly".

What's the meaning of するがいい in this context and the grammar of めそめそしたけりゃ? Thank you!
めそめそしたけりゃするがいい = めそめそしたければするがいい

するがいい is close to すればいい in structure, but it's only used for blame, contempt or non-interference ("Do it if you/they want, but I don't take responsibility of it") to someone else than the speaker (it's said to 参木 himself in your example, of course).
 

karenk

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お目出度く is an ironical expression there, meaning "happily in the dark", so the actual meaning is close to "stupidly".


めそめそしたけりゃするがいい = めそめそしたければするがいい

するがいい is close to すればいい in structure, but it's only used for blame, contempt or non-interference ("Do it if you/they want, but I don't take responsibility of it") to someone else than the speaker (it's said to 参木 himself in your example, of course).
Then wouls it be something more like: "Well, you can cry foolishly as much as you want" (Sanki saying it to himself)?
 
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